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Post by fauxmaha on Apr 1, 2020 12:54:43 GMT -5
As an aside, I am happy to say that both K and I’s sense of smell is returning, and with it comes my sense of humor, sense of propriety, and sense of adventure. I feel pretty darn good this morning. In hindsight, we both felt worse than we initially thought over the last 2 weeks. I also lost 9 pounds, and I’m not a big guy. I was able to teach my online lessons yesterday without gassing out, to boot. So far, so good. Insert punchline here:
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Post by Chesapeake on Apr 1, 2020 13:00:08 GMT -5
Great news.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Apr 1, 2020 16:47:49 GMT -5
I have an acquaintance who is, of all things, a pilot in Alaska. He and his wife didn’t have to change their lives much to social distance. Somehow, he and his wife caught something, that literally tracked, symptom by symptom along with K and I, only 4 days ahead of us. I’m talking, onset—to extreme fatigue—to breathing—to smell loss—to feeling better; two weeks, to a T, 4 days ahead. He even lost the same amount of weight.
He’s very sure he got it on business flying to Vegas; Chinese business interests.
Talked to an old buddy from college today, and his comment was "Oh yeah, you had it. Same exact symptom progression as a friend who tested positive..."
Anecdotal, for sure, but I’m gonna go ahead and play the Occam’s Razor card (at least the pop culture version) on this.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Apr 1, 2020 17:30:20 GMT -5
Here in Indiana I can't even get my hair cut, not that I have much.
Also, my dentist is shut down while I was in the middle of getting a partial. My four bottom front teeth have been pulled, the gums have healed, the impression has been made, but the process has stalled there. All I want for Idiot Jam (hopeful thinking here) is my four front teeth.
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Post by jdd2 on Apr 1, 2020 17:45:28 GMT -5
With the job losses, maybe there will be a shift in opinion about whether health care being connected to your work is a good thing or not.
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Post by Cornflake on Apr 1, 2020 18:28:18 GMT -5
"With the job losses, maybe there will be a shift in opinion about whether health care being connected to your work is a good thing or not."
I don't think we have that connection because anyone thinks it's optimum. It just evolved that way in the US and the result has a lot of momentum built into it.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Apr 1, 2020 18:30:08 GMT -5
With the job losses, maybe there will be a shift in opinion about whether health care being connected to your work is a good thing or not. Won’t make much difference in my circle, since most of my friends and colleagues already think that situation no es bueno.
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COVID 19
Apr 2, 2020 13:15:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by TKennedy on Apr 2, 2020 13:15:43 GMT -5
Interesting article in our local paper about a MN resident that lives in China. I will try to paste it as there may be a paywall. They were really militaristic about keeping things in line. Here is the link. You might get one free look. www.echopress.com/lifestyle/health/5025444-For-Minnesotan-experiencing-China-lockdown-life-meant-masks-and-temperature-checks-but-normalcy-is-slowly-returningFor Minnesotan experiencing China lockdown, life meant masks and temperature checks, but normalcy is slowly returning Restrictions were followed for the good of the country, woman says. Written By: Rebecca Mitchell | Apr 2nd 2020 - 8am. At the neighborhood Walmart in Zhuhai, Guangdong, China a big red sign is posted that reads, "出门戴口罩 健康来报到," which means, "When you go out wear a mask, you still stay healthy," according to Karentina Albin. Throughout the COVID-19 epidemic, a city ordinance required people to wear masks in public. Photo courtesy of Karentina Albin At the neighborhood Walmart in Zhuhai, Guangdong, China a big red sign is posted that reads, "出门戴口罩 健康来报到," which means, "When you go out wear a mask, you still stay healthy," according to Karentina Albin. Throughout the COVID-19 epidemic, a city ordinance required people to wear masks in public. Photo courtesy of Karentina Albin As COVID-19 continues to spread throughout Minnesota and the United States with various safety and stay-at-home measures in place, a former Minnesotan shared her experiences from the epidemic in the Guangdong province of China. Karentina Albin, formerly of Verndale in north-central Minnesota, lives in the city of Zhuhai and followed numerous restrictions, such as needing to wear a mask when out in public and temperature checks. She didn’t know of anyone with COVID-19 in her apartment complex, though it was “terrifying” when she learned about a case across the street. She also learned that a person that was diagnosed with COVID-19 was in Sam’s Club at the same time as her. The Chinese government shared messages with information about individuals with COVID-19, from the stores they had shopped in to their seat on a specific train route and where they live. She was in Guangdong when the outbreak started getting serious in the province around Jan. 25. She has been living in China since 2012. At first, the cases of COVID-19 and the lockdown were only in the city of Wuhan, but then Albin said she got scared as the cases came to Guangdong and their province was also locked down. The South China Morning Post reported the Guangdong province had the second highest number of cases outside of the province of Hubei, where Wuhan is located, despite being 577 miles from one another, according to Albin. Living in the lockdown “It was really scary at first because most of the sources are in Chinese and so reading was overwhelming,” Albin said. Albin said the media was sometimes conflicting or confusing, she wasn’t able to buy masks, there was nothing left at the supermarket and businesses around her were closing, like current experiences in the U.S. One of the differences was in completing grocery shopping or receiving delivered food. “It was a little different here because we had to go through so many different little things in order to do simple tasks,” Albin said. Each time people went to Walmart, a woman with goggles, a visor and a full plastic sheet stood outside to take people’s temperature to check for a fever. When returning to her apartment complex, Albin again had her temperature checked, filled out a form and walked through a mat of disinfectant to avoid any virus droplets being tracked inside the complex. In March, Albin visited her husband, Simon, who was working in the city of Macau. The journey took seven hours instead of 30 minutes to an hour. It included passport checks and sitting in a huge room with approximately 600 people for temperature checks every two hours, which she only had to go through twice because her temperature stayed the same. “Probably what I’m going to remember most from this is all of the passport check, the temperature check, the jumping through hoops,” Albin said. Albin received texts daily about staying inside and wearing a mask when outside. In this message, the Provincial Health Commission and the Provincial Emergency Management Department gave several tips for shopping at supermarkets or shopping malls. The message was translated into English by Albin. Photo courtesy of Karentina Albin
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Post by majorminor on Apr 2, 2020 13:49:27 GMT -5
Thanks Terry - I tend to discount a lot of the "Trump Shoulda" chatter just due to the fact that the republic make up of and the liberties we enjoy in the USA make it a stretch to draw many meaningful country to country comparisons.
I am a little pissed at this administration though. Hindsight is 20/20 and like Epaul said at one point Hillary probably would have done similar things at similar times. BUT this administration got scared/properly informed about 3-4 weeks too late IMO. It was either an intelligence failure regarding what was really going on in China in the early days or the intelligence was there and was being ignored by people given a lot of power and perks to be smarter than the average bear. I don't think he gets run out of town, and his ultimate handling of this crisis is still to be seen, but if we are grading thus far it's a C (for clusterf**k) at BEST for this administration IMO.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Apr 2, 2020 14:07:22 GMT -5
One thing about Trump—and I’m pretty sure I’m not the first here to point this out—there is often a world of difference between what he says in the moment, and what he does. His track record of saying outlandish shit, off-the-cuff, is on the way to being largely unparalleled. That said, what he actually *does* often gets covered up in the bluster, both coming and going. For instance, he closed all travel to/from China back in January. Almost a month before we started talking about the virus on this forum.
Straight up, Trump is no dumbfuck, he just plays one well on TV.
A lot of our gov’t’s current lack of material resources to back up our for-profit hospitals in this time of crisis can be laid at the feet of both parties; certainly, the GWB and Obama admins didn’t do anything to shore up big Gov’t doomsday prepping. Ironically, the guy most likely to fix that is the Donald, both because he’s the fool on duty when the shit hit the fan AND because he was hired largely to bust current best practices.
JMO.
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Post by epaul on Apr 2, 2020 15:26:05 GMT -5
The CDC. There will be books written on this one. But, this I can say with confidence. The CDC was not sitting around on its hands waiting for Trump to give them the go ahead. The CDC is probably the premier disease investigation outfit on the planet, and that credit is not self-generated, it is widely respected and relied upon world-wide. When the SARS epidemic hit, it was the CDC that developed and distributed the test kit that was critical in the fight to identify and contain. By all accounts, what the CDC did in this regard and the short time in which they got it done was amazing.
So, as soon as the CDC got reports of another Corona virus rearing up in China, bet your bottom dollar they got right on it. That deal right in their wheelhouse and they sure as hell weren't waiting for Trump or anyone else to tell them put the pedal to the metal. That isn't how it works. And it sure isn't how the CDC works. As soon as they knew, they got on it and as soon as they had the samples they needed to start on a test kit they did. It is what they do,
This time, something went wrong. The test was flawed. And the first attempts at fixing didn't. And time was lost. Maybe they tried make a test that was too good, maybe it was just something that happened the way things can and do, to anyone and anything. I don't know. The story will get out. But, whatever the CDC story proves to be, it will not be that the CDC was sitting around on their hands waiting for Trump to say "Um, guys, maybe you should, you know, make some kind of test kit thingie, just in case this isn't a trick by the Democrats".
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Post by kenlarsson on Apr 2, 2020 15:48:49 GMT -5
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Post by epaul on Apr 2, 2020 16:02:01 GMT -5
Ventilators. I'm looking for the podcast of a reporting on this aired by NPR. I will post if/when I find it. What I am going with now is:
1) the type of ventilators we have currently are far too expensive and complex to stockpile in a warehouse and their production is too complex to quickly ramp up at the flick of a switch. Plant capacity, parts supply, and a trained workforce are fixed factors that need a lead time of several months, not weeks, to increase (if and when GM or Ford ever manage to actually start producing ventilators in any useful numbers, I'm not sure I would trust what they produce. These things aren't Lego kits). And storage of maintenance requireing machines that cost from $60,000
2) the government recognized all of the above and started a project (details on the podcast I will look for) to develop a relatively simple, inexpensive, lightweight, easier to produce and operate ventilator. I forget when the project started, under Bush II or Obama. A found a small tech company in CA was found to develop the things and the start was promising. But problems and delays set in. Years went by. Then the small company got bought out by a big company and the government blaming the big company and the big company blaming the government, the now dormant project was cashiered in 2016.
(apparently this ball was later picked up and has once been dropped. link to follow)
3) I hate to say this, but the use of ventilators in getting people cured of this deal isn't looking that promising. When all is said and done, the damning shortage will likely not be a shortage of ventilators but will certainly be the shortage of personal protective gear, beginning with shortage of effective masks.
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Post by epaul on Apr 2, 2020 16:06:29 GMT -5
Mask and Protective Gear. All made in China. When we realized we needed, China wasn't selling. Easily stockpiled ahead of time if you buy when China is producing and selling.
This shortage of masks and protective gear is the biggest shame of all. Having an adequate supply on hand would have cheap and easy. Having become reliant on China for something so basic and necessary is disgusting.
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Post by fauxmaha on Apr 2, 2020 16:12:47 GMT -5
The CDC. There will be books written on this one. But, this I can say with confidence. The CDC was not sitting around on its hands waiting for Trump to give them the go ahead. The CDC is probably the premier disease investigation outfit on the planet, and that credit is not self-generated, it is widely respected and relied upon world-wide. When the SARS epidemic hit, it was the CDC that developed and distributed the test kit that was critical in the fight to identify and contain. By all accounts, what the CDC did in this regard and the short time in which they got it done was amazing. So, as soon as the CDC got reports of another Corona virus rearing up in China, bet your bottom dollar they got right on it. That deal right in their wheelhouse and they sure as hell weren't waiting for Trump or anyone else to tell them put the pedal to the metal. That isn't how it works. And it sure isn't how the CDC works. As soon as they knew, they got on it and as soon as they had the samples they needed to start on a test kit they did. It is what they do,
This time, something went wrong. The test was flawed. And the first attempts at fixing didn't. And time was lost. Maybe they tried make a test that was too good, maybe it was just something that happened the way things can and do, to anyone and anything. I don't know. The story will get out. But, whatever the CDC story proves to be, it will not be that the CDC was sitting around on their hands waiting for Trump to say "Um, guys, maybe you should, you know, make some kind of test kit thingie, just in case this isn't a trick by the Democrats".This idea that all that...all the billions of dollars and thousands of specialists...is somehow single-threaded through the White House is just nonsensical. That's not how any of this works. The guys at the CDC (who one assumes were on to this months ago) did not sit around and say "Sure hope we get the call from the White House to start doing some stuff".
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Post by Russell Letson on Apr 2, 2020 16:19:22 GMT -5
On the ventilator-manufacturing ramp-up: As I was waking up, I caught the tail-end of an NPR story of one of the auto-makers getting a piston-casting process working--it's a ventilator component, and they're part of the complicated supply chain. The guy who seemed to be project manager was, to put it mildly, excited and proud that they got it right and could start shipping the part.
Two take-aways for me: That we do have considerable and responsive manufacturing capacity, and that nevertheless some of this gear is going to take a while to get to the ICUs. Maybe even items as supposedly simple as masks, given the specifications for the fabric they use. (One of our docs can probably cite the specs.)
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Post by majorminor on Apr 2, 2020 16:27:03 GMT -5
Maybe I need to re evaluate what I expect a federal government to do. Or try to do. Just like I expect them to know before the guys at The Hobo Haus when Russia blows the lids on a few ballistic missile silos in Siberia I’d also like them to see the plague coming before Joe Rogan on his podcast. Too much to expect?
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Post by billhammond on Apr 2, 2020 16:42:20 GMT -5
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Post by epaul on Apr 2, 2020 16:51:51 GMT -5
The CDC. There will be books written on this one. But, this I can say with confidence. The CDC was not sitting around on its hands waiting for Trump to give them the go ahead... This idea that all that...all the billions of dollars and thousands of specialists...is somehow single-threaded through the White House is just nonsensical. That's not how any of this works. The guys at the CDC (who one assumes were on to this months ago) did not sit around and say "Sure hope we get the call from the White House to start doing some stuff". Once again, I salute you, sir! You are one fart smeller! (in the days of Covid, calling someone a fart smeller is a blessing for good health!)
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Post by fauxmaha on Apr 2, 2020 17:07:47 GMT -5
Step 1: Dump Tom Brady. Step 2: Do good stuff. Basically, this is how science works.
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