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Post by TKennedy on Jun 2, 2024 10:05:00 GMT -5
Interesting interview of former Trump attorney Joe Tacopina by Al sharpton. “Interview” used lightly as Al did most of the talking and tried to force the responses but Joe who seems to have his head screwed on quite well gave some noteworthy answers.
Lots of drama ahead and appeals that may well be won but Trump’s behavior surrounding the trial and verdict only reinforces preexisting opinions as to whether he is qualified for the most powerful office on our planet. It is notable that a very long list of colleagues who worked closely with him have unequivocally gone on record that he is not.
The solution for Republicans is so simple. Trump is the only candidate Biden could possibly beat. If they want the office nominate someone like Niki and it’s a slam dunk.
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Post by epaul on Jun 2, 2024 10:53:37 GMT -5
The funny deal is, no one doubts the actual meat and bones of the trial. Not even Trump's most ardent supporters doubt that he had an affair with Stormy Davis and then paid her hush money to try shut her up. Little did Trump know at the time that none of his supporters gave a shit who he screwed or how many times he did it, not even the evangelicals. One of life's little ironies.
As per usual, it isn't the facts, it's everything else that matters. And with Trump, that's times ten. (a hundred)
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Post by billhammond on Jun 2, 2024 11:07:40 GMT -5
Excerpt of a Charlotte Observer piece:
Biden should react with caution, not just because the forces unleashed by this conviction are unpredictable, but also because while he is the Democrats’ president, he is also the nation’s president. In this unprecedented moment, he should bring the nation together by being both modest and merciful.
Modest because it is reasonable for many in the rightward half of the American electorate to doubt the justice system of New York . There was another historic unanimous decision today, this one by the Supreme Court of the United States — which ruled that New York’s Democratic regulators must face a National Rifle Association lawsuit that they targeted the group in violation of its First Amendment rights. The decision rebuking New York was written by liberal lion Justice Sonia Sotomayor.
Just as a unanimous jury said that Donald Trump is corrupt, a 9-0 Supreme Court ruled that the Democrats of New York are not to be trusted.
The smart move for Biden is to ask the Democratic governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, to use her clemency power to pardon Trump.
First, because as much as Trump has trashed the norms of our democratic system, we do not want to go down the road of the party of an incumbent president prosecuting his chief political opponent for paperwork infractions. Presidential campaigns produce a lot of paper, pushed by a lot of people. An ambitious prosecutor with a partisan lens can always find an indictable offense if not deliver a conviction in open court.
Second, because it most likely ends Trump’s ability to appeal the verdict against him. Courts will rule any appeal moot if Trump has been pardoned and does not face jail or fines for his crimes. Democrats should not be so confident that such a complicated case will withstand appellate scrutiny at both the state and the federal level. After a pardon, the stain of conviction will be permanent.
Third, because it strips Trump of the martyrdom mantle he could well ride into the White House . Moreover, it builds up Democrats and Biden as the adults who, when offered partisan advantage against a wounded opponent, chose to put the nation first.
Biden won in 2020 because an exhausted nation turned to him for a chance at peace. This is his opportunity to deliver.
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Post by Marshall on Jun 2, 2024 11:32:34 GMT -5
I like that.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 2, 2024 11:34:29 GMT -5
Note to the Charlotte Observer: Isn't it pretty to think so. While a NYS-issued pardon might be a shrewd play, nothing will take the edge off the Trumpists' dedication to their beloved cult leader, which means that nothing can erode that 38% diehard core-support group--or, probably, much move the larger percentage of Republicans who still tell pollsters that they think Trump won in 2020.
There is ample evidence from interviews that Trump supporters are firmly set in their views of Trump and Biden and the mainstream media--just look at the Ted Koppel segment that ran today on CBS Sunday Morning. Plenty of coy, deniable suggestions that if Trump loses this time around, they're ready for civil war. Rational discussion is not going to move them.
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Post by TKennedy on Jun 2, 2024 11:43:40 GMT -5
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Post by Cornflake on Jun 2, 2024 11:51:22 GMT -5
"... it is reasonable for many in the rightward half of the American electorate to doubt the justice system of New York."
Why? I'll agree when someone provides some facts that raise reasonable questions about the fairness of the proceeding.
"Just as a unanimous jury said that Donald Trump is corrupt, a 9-0 Supreme Court ruled that the Democrats of New York are not to be trusted."
That isn't what the jury found. It isn't what the Supreme Court found. Pretty much everything about that sentence is bullshit.
I don't think a harsh punishment for the felony is in order. If I were the judge, I think I'd put him on probation for the felony. I'd order him to spend five days in jail because of the repeated and ongoing violations of court orders. He's not only encouraging disdain for the judicial system, he's creating a real risk of violence towards some of the participants in the trial.
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Post by epaul on Jun 2, 2024 12:00:48 GMT -5
I LOVE THE PARDON IDEA.
Maybe for the wrong reasons, but I do love it. It is Machiavellian. It places Trump in a pickle. A pardon is undeniably a gracious act, and Trump can not and will not respond graciously. He will respond in character; churlish, sour and so remote from any basic human decency. And another 1.5% (maybe 2%?) will be whittled away from his vote totals this November.
["Crooked Joe rigged the trial, and now he rigged the pardon. He's evil, so evil, a bad, bad man. I'm so wonderful and so innocent, so innocent, like a lamb, I'm the most innocent man that ever walked this earth. Never has there been such innocence. I don't need a pardon for anything, ever."]
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 2, 2024 12:17:34 GMT -5
When I listen to the "rightward half of the American electorate" (as presented via interviews or by eavesdropping on talk radio or in local gathering places or scrolling through comment threads), I hear delusion-and-ignorance-fueled resentment and a familiar hostility to people-not-like-us who live in far-off places never visited by said half. I fucking live among the rightward half (former Representative: Michele Bachmann; current Representative Tom Emmer), and there's no reasoning with the MAGA core, no way of countering their acceptance of non-facts as facts.
I agree with 'Flake about sentencing--the standard practice for these offenses seems to be fines and probation rather than jail time, though Trump's bad habit of near or actual contempt of court might get him less mild treatment. Which, of course, has its downside, since it fuels the victimization drama that keeps his followers het up. "They're coming for you next." Yeah, sure, as soon as they conceal their payoffs to their porn-star lovers.
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Post by Cornflake on Jun 2, 2024 12:21:40 GMT -5
Biden can't pardon Trump for this conviction.
The President’s clemency power is conferred by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution of the United States, which provides: “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Thus, the President’s authority to grant clemency is limited to federal offenses and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. An offense that violates a state law is not an offense against the United States. A person who wishes to seek a pardon or a commutation of sentence for a state offense should contact the authorities of the state in which the conviction occurred. Such state authorities are typically the Governor or a state board of pardons and/or paroles, if the state government has created such a board. -- Office of the Pardon Attorney, U. S. Department of Justice
I assume that's why the Charlotte piece said he should ask New York's Governor to pardon the guy.
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 2, 2024 15:47:32 GMT -5
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Post by TKennedy on Jun 2, 2024 16:23:27 GMT -5
I was going to share that link too. Interesting article.
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Post by james on Jun 7, 2024 15:52:31 GMT -5
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