Prez debate

[Tamarack]

Until two days ago you trusted your sources that Biden was just fine

The sources you and millions of others have relied on have been manipulating their public

Pretty damn presumptuous to think you know what news sources other forumites read, watch or listen to.

There is the underlying insinuation that other forumites are too stupid to think critically about what is presented in news media.

By the way, politicians have been manipulating media to make themselves look good and make their opponents look bad as long as there have been politicians and as long as there has been media.

[Cornflake]

At this point we just have to wait and see. Nobody can get Biden off the ticket except Biden. I suspect that a lot of conversations have been going on. He'll either withdraw or he won't. I think he won't. In that case, Trump will probably win the electoral college. I'll have to hope that my fears about that outcome will turn out to have been exaggerated. I think I'll watch some baseball.

[epaul]

The Twins aren't on until this evening. You'll have to find something else to do for the afternoon.

[millring]

Jun 30, 2024 12:03:28 GMT -5 Tamarack said:

Until two days ago you trusted your sources that Biden was just fine

The sources you and millions of others have relied on have been manipulating their public

Pretty damn presumptuous to think you know what news sources other forumites read, watch or listen to.

There is the underlying insinuation that other forumites are too stupid to think critically about what is presented in news media.

By the way, politicians have been manipulating media to make themselves look good and make their opponents look bad as long as there have been politicians and as long as there has been media.

That's rich. Who's been accused of being a racist, believing conspiracy theories, getting their news from Facebook ... I could go on.

I could try all day and never come up with all the insults to my intelligence and character that I've endured here.

You believed that Biden was okay. You had to have believed some sources that were telling you that.

[Cornflake]

"The Twins aren't on until this evening. You'll have to find something else to do for the afternoon."

Maybe Australian-rules mumblety-peg.

[theevan]

Jun 30, 2024 12:31:32 GMT -5 Cornflake said:

At this point we just have to wait and see. Nobody can get Biden off the ticket except Biden. I suspect that a lot of conversations have been going on. He'll either withdraw or he won't. I think he won't. In that case, Trump will probably win the electoral college. I'll have to hope that my fears about that outcome will turn out to have been exaggerated. I think I'll watch some baseball.

Not sure either, but I think he will. And if he won't, can't they "go into session" (or whatever the procedure might be) and just make someone else the nominee?

[Cornflake]

I don't know if they can or not, Evan, but I can't see that happening.

[james]

 Nicholas Grossman wrote a thing a while ago. 

Here is the start of it. 

"If Donald Trump wins the 2024 election and becomes president again, American democracy is done. That may sound dramatic, but that’s because we’re living through a historical moment, and I don’t see any benefit in sugarcoating it.

The U.S. won’t cross into authoritarianism all at once, and won’t feature a dramatic seizure of power, like Mussolini’s March on Rome. It’ll happen via democratic backsliding, where a leader who gains power by election abuses it in office—corrupting law enforcement, degrading checks and balances, and ensuring that future elections are not free or fair.

In the 21st century, we’ve seen versions of this happen in Turkey, Hungary, Poland, India, Israel, and Peru. And to some extent Russia, though it started from a lower baseline. Brazil is at risk, with a scare in 2022. The American South experienced democratic backsliding with the failure of Reconstruction and imposition of Jim Crow. “It can’t happen here” is naive.

Some look to Trump’s presidency, see that America didn’t become a dictatorship, and think concerns he’ll break democracy are overblown. But that has it backwards. It’s because Trump was president that the threat is so great.

With democratic backsliding, the first term often starts out slow, as the would-be authoritarian is unsure what they can get away with. They take office atop a professional civil service, and appoint establishment figures to add credibility. As their law-indifferent desires get frustrated, they push through barriers, sidelining rule-followers and empowering personal loyalists.

They don’t have to be good at this for it to work. As Hannah Arendt argued, incompetence hollows out institutions by getting competent people to quit—out of frustration, morality, etc.—thereby opening up more spots for loyalists.

Similarly, breaking through barriers that separate democracy from authoritarianism doesn’t need to be strategic, and often isn’t. Act on impulse until you meet resistance, then stubbornly keep pushing without concern for established norms.

Second terms, when democratic backsliders get the validation of election after showing their true colors, are usually when things break.

That’s what will happen if Trump regains national power. He’s already fought nine battles against the institutions upholding Constitutional democracy, winning seven. The only barrier remaining is re-election."

He elaborates at this link.

www.arcdigital.media/p/the-institutions-of-american-democracy

[brucemacneill]

My God, it I had one, you guys are stupid.

[billhammond]

Jun 30, 2024 16:31:35 GMT -5 brucemacneill said:

My God, it I had one, you guys are stupid.

What does this mean???

[Moderators]

My God, it I had one, you guys are stupid.

 Locked, for obvious reasons