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Post by aquaduct on Feb 16, 2019 23:21:42 GMT -5
You mean like when Obama did it for the swine flu which nobody got in one of his 11 times invoking it, or Bush in his 13 times, or Clinton's 17 times? Spare me that shit. In this case, Pete, you are full of shit and I won't spare you an ounce of it. Neither Obama or any other president ever used his emergency powers authority to directly override a congressional vote, and Trump just it did the very next day after the vote was taken. Is there any point, any point at all, where you would ever shake your head and of Trump say, this was wrong? No. I've been to that dance, personnally. I love that the Trump smack down of their high and mighty bullshit is happening. Making America great again, mostly by not taking any of DC's shit.
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Post by fauxmaha on Feb 16, 2019 23:44:56 GMT -5
You mean like when Obama did it for the swine flu which nobody got in one of his 11 times invoking it, or Bush in his 13 times, or Clinton's 17 times? Spare me that shit. In this case, Pete, you are full of shit and I won't spare you an ounce of it. Neither Obama or any other president ever used his emergency powers authority to directly override a congressional vote, and Trump just it did the very next day after the vote was taken. Is there any point, any point at all, where you would ever shake your head and of Trump say, this was wrong? Seems noteworthy that reports are saying that House Democratic strategists are putting together legal arguments based on the precedent set when Obama's illegal payments to insurance companies was shot down by the courts. Jonathan Turley has a good piece in the Hill on all of this.
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Post by epaul on Feb 17, 2019 0:33:14 GMT -5
Ok, Jeff, straight talk, does Trump's move strike you as worrisome?
I don't give a shit what Obama or Bush or anyone else did or didn't do. Blame Obama for starting it, I don't care. But, for now, in the here and now, does Trump's move trouble you?
Not to put words in your mouth, just attempting to frame the question...
Is Trump attempting to push increased presidential power into new territory or do you think this is nothing new and no new ground has been broken?
Did Trump just tell the congress to go fuck itself or is he operating within our constitutional framework and this is just a liberal hissy fit?
No equivocating. No delving into esoteric game withing the game gobbledy gook. Straight talk, clear answer. I won't argue it.
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Post by fauxmaha on Feb 17, 2019 0:49:13 GMT -5
I don't like this move, but I hardly see it as something new.
Process arguments are all well and good, but unless someone demonstrates consistency (as in when his side's ox is the one being gored), they fall flat with me.
I'm too tired to dig it up now, but there's a quote from me (here) from over a year ago positing that maybe Trump would be what it takes to reign in decades of executive over reach and congressional timidity. Sadly, we don't seem to be getting that.
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Post by andrewg on Feb 17, 2019 6:45:11 GMT -5
Trump is nowhere close to hitting bottom. No, but he's digging vigorously. He'll get there.
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Post by andrewg on Feb 17, 2019 6:50:29 GMT -5
"Congress is continually abdicating it's authority in favor of the Executive." Presidents will mostly be happy to usurp that authority if Congress allows it. Our system is predicated on the notion that our tax dollars should be spent only with the consent of our legislative representatives. If we let that constraint erode, presidents of both parties will be free to do things that a majority of the country opposes. You can spin your own list of horrors, depending on your political views. Congress shouldn't allow it. We shouldn't condone it. Currently we're in a cold civil war between the forces of Communism and Capitalism. I fear that the war will get hotter unless the Communist/socialist/democrats continue to push for crazy stuff and fall out of favor with regular Democrats enough to lose in a landslide. Failing that, the country will divide and talk of secession will get serious with the more communistic east and west coasts seceding from the union and the sane residents moving to the remaining states. The money is already moving out of the coastal states. What 'communism'? Seems to me that for a certain American cohort anything even vaguely suggestive of a left of centre policy represents the slippery slope to a totalitarian collective! Ridiculous.
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Post by andrewg on Feb 17, 2019 6:59:18 GMT -5
In this case, Pete, you are full of shit and I won't spare you an ounce of it. Neither Obama or any other president ever used his emergency powers authority to directly override a congressional vote, and Trump just it did the very next day after the vote was taken. Is there any point, any point at all, where you would ever shake your head and of Trump say, this was wrong? No. I've been to that dance, personnally. I love that the Trump smack down of their high and mighty bullshit is happening. Making America great again, mostly by not taking any of DC's shit. From where I'm sitting in England your president is doing his utmost (and succeeding admirably), to make America an international laughing-stock, and a weak and easily manipulated political walkover. In that endeavour he's succeeding admirably. This is an opinion shared by many of us in Europe and elsewhere who are able to be objective and non-partisan where US politics are concerned. Trump is the most dangerously ridiculous sociopath and politically inept cretin you could have found. And then you elected him; I'm surprised you didn't hear the laughter from here.
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Post by aquaduct on Feb 17, 2019 7:41:44 GMT -5
No. I've been to that dance, personnally. I love that the Trump smack down of their high and mighty bullshit is happening. Making America great again, mostly by not taking any of DC's shit. From where I'm sitting in England your president is doing his utmost to make America a laughing-stock, and a weak and easily manipulated political walkover. In that endeavour he's succeeding admirably. This is an opinion shared by many of us in Europe and elsewhere who are able to be objective and non-partisan where US politics are concerned. Trump is the most dangerously ridiculous sociopath and politically inept cretin you could have found. And then you elected him; I'm surprised you didn't hear the laughter from here. And your opinion matters, why?
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Post by fauxmaha on Feb 17, 2019 7:49:35 GMT -5
There is absurdity to be found everywhere. One function of the GIN is to place selective emphasis on those stories/events that further the agenda, while de-emphasizing those that do not.
The Jussie Smollett story is a perfect example. B-list celeb, black, attacked by two white guys wearing MAGA hats, rope tied around his neck. Just too juicy for the GIN to ignore. So we see a multi-week explosion of stories, the consistent angle being just how racist all those MAGA types are...hunting down black guys in the wee hours of the morning...practically a lynching.
Turns out the whole thing was a hoax from the start.
Well, then.
What amazes me is how gullible the 'sophisticates' are. If the initial "facts' of this story didn't trigger your BS detector, you're hopeless.
We've arrived at this insane juncture where the demand for hate exceeds the available supply. Not to worry, though. Fake hate will suffice.
Maybe I'm more than a little twisted, but all of that strikes me as really, really funny.
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Post by jdd2 on Feb 17, 2019 7:57:19 GMT -5
Yeah, the Aurora shooting is probably gonna turn out to be a hoax, too.
Unfortunately, trump's national emergency is not.
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Post by andrewg on Feb 17, 2019 8:03:24 GMT -5
From where I'm sitting in England your president is doing his utmost to make America a laughing-stock, and a weak and easily manipulated political walkover. In that endeavour he's succeeding admirably. This is an opinion shared by many of us in Europe and elsewhere who are able to be objective and non-partisan where US politics are concerned. Trump is the most dangerously ridiculous sociopath and politically inept cretin you could have found. And then you elected him; I'm surprised you didn't hear the laughter from here. And your opinion matters, why? My opinion matters because what happens in America eventually gravitates around the world. Remember the 2008 Wall Street crash fiasco? We're still feeling it where it matters-in our pockets. When what America does stops affecting me directly I'll be sure to stop voicing my opinion. Until then I'm afraid you're stuck with it. There's an old saying I'll paraphrase; 'when America farts the stink is smelt around the world'.
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Post by aquaduct on Feb 17, 2019 8:20:00 GMT -5
And your opinion matters, why? My opinion matters because what happens in America eventually gravitates around the world. Remember the 2008 Wall Street crash fiasco? We're still feeling it where it matters-in our pockets. When what America does stops affecting me directly I'll be sure to stop voicing my opinion. Until then I'm afraid you're stuck with it. There's an old saying I'll paraphrase; 'when America farts the stink is smelt around the world'. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they all stink. Voice away. Irrelevance awaits.
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Post by andrewg on Feb 17, 2019 9:18:43 GMT -5
My opinion matters because what happens in America eventually gravitates around the world. Remember the 2008 Wall Street crash fiasco? We're still feeling it where it matters-in our pockets. When what America does stops affecting me directly I'll be sure to stop voicing my opinion. Until then I'm afraid you're stuck with it. There's an old saying I'll paraphrase; 'when America farts the stink is smelt around the world'. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they all stink. Voice away. Irrelevance awaits. Does that include your opinions?
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Post by fauxmaha on Feb 17, 2019 9:23:02 GMT -5
Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they all stink. Voice away. Irrelevance awaits. Does that include your opinions? To the point, does that include Russian opinion?
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Feb 17, 2019 9:44:12 GMT -5
Aqua: "And your opinion matters, why"
Because we don't live in a vacume.
Mike
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Post by aquaduct on Feb 17, 2019 9:52:52 GMT -5
Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they all stink. Voice away. Irrelevance awaits. Does that include your opinions? As a matter of fact, yes. But I'm don't have a hard on to arrogantly denigrate your country or you.
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Post by brucemacneill on Feb 17, 2019 9:53:59 GMT -5
Aqua: "And your opinion matters, why" Because we don't live in a vacume. Mike You can't even spell vacuum?
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Post by Marshall on Feb 17, 2019 9:56:04 GMT -5
I don't like this move, but I hardly see it as something new. Process arguments are all well and good, but unless someone demonstrates consistency (as in when his side's ox is the one being gored), they fall flat with me. I'm too tired to dig it up now, but there's a quote from me (here) from over a year ago positing that maybe Trump would be what it takes to reign in decades of executive over reach and congressional timidity. Sadly, we don't seem to be getting that. Yeah. That's the warning in all this. If Congress rolls over again and let's this happen, then they've further abdicated their authority to the Executive. But we'll see.
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Post by timfarney on Feb 17, 2019 10:15:33 GMT -5
I don't like this move, but I hardly see it as something new. Process arguments are all well and good, but unless someone demonstrates consistency (as in when his side's ox is the one being gored), they fall flat with me. I'm too tired to dig it up now, but there's a quote from me (here) from over a year ago positing that maybe Trump would be what it takes to reign in decades of executive over reach and congressional timidity. Sadly, we don't seem to be getting that. Never mind that this is an “emergency” that has been left unaddressed for a couple of years because Congress wouldn’t act on it, even when they had majorities in both houses, executive overreach is certainly nothing new. Neither is the legislative branch freely giving their responsibilities up to the executive, so they don’t have to take the heat for them. What’s different here is the executive branch attempting to expand its powers to include overriding legislation that the legislative branch has passed, where they have already taken their constitutional responsibility. But what the hell, the legislature gave the power to start wars up to the executive branch years ago. Why not cede the power of the purse? Functionally, the constitution is in tatters. This is just one more rip.
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Post by aquaduct on Feb 17, 2019 10:18:39 GMT -5
Does that include your opinions? To the point, does that include Russian opinion? Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition either.
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