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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Dec 9, 2019 11:46:52 GMT -5
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 12:00:32 GMT -5
Well, I suspect this is a slanted view to start. Within the context of the good-ole-boy big time real estate developer community this would be acceptable behind-closed-door bravado. But the man has no filter. The man has no couth.
But I wouldn't take this kind of article as indicating anything we don't already know. And I wouldn't take it as a harbinger of any tide turning. It's still going to be a tight election next Fall. This doesn't change anything. If you don't like the man, be vigilant and and get out and support somebody else. Tearing him down only goes so far.
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Post by brucemacneill on Dec 9, 2019 12:24:27 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 9, 2019 12:41:35 GMT -5
Well, that's pretty damn definitive. |
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 13:37:03 GMT -5
Could be true. But there was an underlying fact about 2016, that enough of the population was upset with their institutions from the 2008 Great Recession, that they wanted to vote the bums out. But now that the economy has resurrected itself, there may not be that rebellious of a sentiment in the populace. A sigh of relief. Maybe enough people will give Trump credit. Maybe people will just feel better in general, and be tired of Trumps unorthodox everything. I don't know. Only time and an election will tell.
And the Wild Card in the whole thing is what will the Russians, and the Chinese, and the North Koreans do as election time draws near. We know the Russians like Trump. The Chinese, I don't think so. And the North Koreans want sanctions lifted, and if that doesn't happen, they will probably start launching missiles again to stir up the pot. And how will the American People react to all of that?
Of course that depends on who the Ds bring up to challenge. Warren is pretty far left for America. Sanders too. But maybe having both of them in the primaries will divide each other's support. Sleepy Joe could be centrist and status quo enough to make Trump look too loony by comparison. Don't know about the others. (Bloomberg is running ads during Sunday night football too. He's lurking on the side lines.)
But what I'm saying is this talk Trump gave will not mean anything come November. There's bigger fish coming down the sewer pipe.
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Post by brucemacneill on Dec 9, 2019 14:48:44 GMT -5
Other than MSN, I don't know why anyone thinks Russia likes Trump. They don't.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,910 
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Post by Dub on Dec 9, 2019 14:59:52 GMT -5
Other than MSN, I don't know why anyone thinks Russia likes Trump. They don't. Yeah, I think that’s right. They just find that Trump is someone they can easily use. |
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Post by majorminor on Dec 9, 2019 15:18:13 GMT -5
Could be true. But there was an underlying fact about 2016, that enough of the population was upset with their institutions from the 2008 Great Recession, that they wanted to vote the bums out. But now that the economy has resurrected itself, there may not be that rebellious of a sentiment in the populace. A sigh of relief. Maybe enough people will give Trump credit. Maybe people will just feel better in general, and be tired of Trumps unorthodox everything. I don't know. Only time and an election will tell. And the Wild Card in the whole thing is what will the Russians, and the Chinese, and the North Koreans do as election time draws near. We know the Russians like Trump. The Chinese, I don't think so. And the North Koreans want sanctions lifted, and if that doesn't happen, they will probably start launching missiles again to stir up the pot. And how will the American People react to all of that? Of course that depends on who the Ds bring up to challenge. Warren is pretty far left for America. Sanders too. But maybe having both of them in the primaries will divide each other's support. Sleepy Joe could be centrist and status quo enough to make Trump look too loony by comparison. Don't know about the others. (Bloomberg is running ads during Sunday night football too. He's lurking on the side lines.) But what I'm saying is this talk Trump gave will not mean anything come November. There's bigger fish coming down the sewer pipe. Assuming the economy is even just OK- let alone strong like now - come election time I don't see a current candidate who can beat him. Do you? On the Dem side if a candidate is centrist enough they lack any charisma/pizzazz and if Warren or Bernie get the nom the "Save America" turnout against them will be epic. I thought the only one that had a chance was Beto and that was because he looks like JFK's bastard love child.  |
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 15:43:35 GMT -5
Maybe. Maybe not. I believe Trump carries a lot of bad luggage. It wouldn't take a Superstar to look better than him. I can't believe the American public supports his international stances.
The only bright spot in all these impeachment hearings has been how thoughtful, and conscientious, and dedicated our public employees are. I know many Trumpers like to bad-mouth the Administrative State (the Fourth Branch of Government). But I think these people, for the most part, came off very well. We are well served by these dedicated people. And I have to believe that enough of the American Public will agree.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 15:51:28 GMT -5
Here's an interesting off-the-top-of-my-head observation. This from Fauxmaha's Malcom Gladwell thread.
Trump - Is a Western. There is no system. The Cowboy gunslinger
Biden - is a Northern. The system will cure itself.
Warren & Sanders - I don't know. Probably an Eastern. The system is corrupt and needs to be fixed by an insider - Serpico
Buttigieg & Bloomberg - A Southern? The system is corrupt and needs to be fixed by an outsider.
Most often the American public picks an outsider (Southern): Reagan, Carter, Bill Clinton, Bush II, Trump. Bush I was an insider (Northern). Obama was mostly an outsider (Southern), because even though his was a Congressman, he really had no history in government.
The public never picks a Cowboy. ( Ross Perot)
When Trump ran in 2016, he was a Southern, and outsider who would reform. Hillary was a Northern. She was riding on her experience. But since being elected, Trump has shown a total disregard for every institution in this country. That's not a Southern. That's a Cowboy.
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Post by epaul on Dec 9, 2019 16:09:41 GMT -5
I think Bloomberg would be the Democrats strongest candidate, and I think he would win. He has competency creds. He has business/economy creds. And he has some green creds. Libs (most) will accept him, conservatives (most) won't fear him, and the middle (all) will be damn grateful.
I think he could run a first ever successful third party candidacy. A Trump/Warren choice out of the conventions would create a wide open door for him.
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Post by millring on Dec 9, 2019 16:19:50 GMT -5
I think Bloomberg would be the Democrats strongest candidate, and I think he would win. He has competency creds. He has business/economy creds. And he has some green creds. Libs (most) will accept him, conservatives (most) won't fear him, and the middle (all) will be damn grateful. I think he could run a first ever successful third party candidacy. A Trump/Warren choice out of the conventions would create a wide open door for him. I think he's more of a Nader than a Perot. Not ideologically speaking. I mean that I think he'll take more votes away from the Democrat than he does from the Republican. |
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Post by fauxmaha on Dec 9, 2019 16:30:24 GMT -5
Trump - Is a Western. There is no system. The Cowboy gunslinger Biden - is a Northern. The system will cure itself. Warren & Sanders - I don't know. Probably an Eastern. The system is corrupt and needs to be fixed by an insider - Serpico Buttigieg & Bloomberg - A Southern? The system is corrupt and needs to be fixed by an outsider. Love that! In fact, I was tempted to put something like that in the Gladwell thread, but didn't want to turn it political. I think a reasonable way, looking back to 2016 that is, of interpreting the last election is that Trump voters thought they were watching a Western, and Clinton voters thought they were watching a Northern. Which is why I disagree with your assessment of Biden. In a proper Northern, the system doesn't need curing. I agree that Biden is the Northern candidate, but I don't think Biden thinks there is anything systemically wrong that needs fixing. Scott Adams (the Dilbert guy) talked a lot about how everyone is watching a different movie, and this slots in perfectly. I think that provides a useful explanation for the steady stream of stories (pretty much 4 years worth of them by now) to the effect of "this latest thing will certainly, finally, this time, be the end of Trump". The answer is something like "Yes, if this were a Northern, it would be. But this is a Western, and in prototypical Clint Eastwood fashion, we understand that the hero is flawed." |
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Post by jdd2 on Dec 9, 2019 17:02:26 GMT -5
Bloomberg doesn't look geriatric enough. And Pete..., well, he's got a few decades to go before he actually has the 'look' of a US presidential candidate. OTOH Macron was elected at 39. And this is finland's new prime minister:  |
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Post by jdd2 on Dec 9, 2019 17:08:59 GMT -5
Also, it's kind of interesting how most americans would say that the US has "the best damn system in the world", ...but that to win, you need to run against the system.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 17:34:38 GMT -5
Trump - Is a Western. There is no system. The Cowboy gunslinger Biden - is a Northern. The system will cure itself. Warren & Sanders - I don't know. Probably an Eastern. The system is corrupt and needs to be fixed by an insider - Serpico Buttigieg & Bloomberg - A Southern? The system is corrupt and needs to be fixed by an outsider. Love that! In fact, I was tempted to put something like that in the Gladwell thread, but didn't want to turn it political. I think a reasonable way, looking back to 2016 that is, of interpreting the last election is that Trump voters thought they were watching a Western, and Clinton voters thought they were watching a Northern. Which is why I disagree with your assessment of Biden. In a proper Northern, the system doesn't need curing. I agree that Biden is the Northern candidate, but I don't think Biden thinks there is anything systemically wrong that needs fixing. Scott Adams (the Dilbert guy) talked a lot about how everyone is watching a different movie, and this slots in perfectly. I think that provides a useful explanation for the steady stream of stories (pretty much 4 years worth of them by now) to the effect of "this latest thing will certainly, finally, this time, be the end of Trump". The answer is something like "Yes, if this were a Northern, it would be. But this is a Western, and in prototypical Clint Eastwood fashion, we understand that the hero is flawed."  Love ya right back. Some people in 2016 thought Trump was a Western; Jack Reacher. But I expect there were a lot more people who wanted a Southern (fix the system from outside). They didn't want Hillary who was a Northern ( The system is good and we'll get the machine fine tuned and running like clock work). But they got more than they asked for in Trump who disregards the system all together. This country has been clocking along nicely since WWII. And I dont believe most of the public wants to throw the whole thing out the window. Trump does. The other guys (Reagan, B.Clinton, Dubyah, Carter, Obama) were outsiders who were going to fix the system - Southerns. That's who the country elects. Someone who will reform the system from without, because it can't be reformed from within (as Warren, Sanders, and Serpico would argue it should be). Biden is Northern. He even says he wants to return government to the good old days of civil discourse and a government that takes care of its people and respects its long time friends. Law and Order. |
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 17:43:07 GMT -5
The only Northern who got elected, if my memory serves right, was Bush 1. He was the Veep and rolled in on "more of the same." Other Northerns (former Veeps) who failed were Humphrey, and Gore.
It doesn't bode well for Biden. Not unless the Ruskies, Chinese, or NKs undermine Trump's economy. And even then, the nation has a tendency to rally behind the Prez in times of crisis; even if he is to blame for the crisis.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 17:49:09 GMT -5
Also, it's kind of interesting how most americans would say that the US has "the best damn system in the world", ...but that to win, you need to run against the system. See ! That's what I mean. Most Americans don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They basically love this country and just want to see if fixed, not TRASHED. |
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 17:49:49 GMT -5
Bloomberg doesn't look geriatric enough. And Pete..., well, he's got a few decades to go before he actually has the 'look' of a US presidential candidate. OTOH Macron was elected at 39. And this is finland's new prime minister: - Got my vote. |
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Post by coachdoc on Dec 9, 2019 17:54:13 GMT -5
I think Bloomberg would be the Democrats strongest candidate, and I think he would win. He has competency creds. He has business/economy creds. And he has some green creds. Libs (most) will accept him, conservatives (most) won't fear him, and the middle (all) will be damn grateful. I think he could run a first ever successful third party candidacy. A Trump/Warren choice out of the conventions would create a wide open door for him. Once again, insightful and clearly stated. What's a matter with you, Paul? |
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