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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 26, 2022 11:24:49 GMT -5
Another (legal/political) data point about the implications of the reasoning behind the Alito/Thomas decision: at the National Association of Christian Lawmakers conference on Friday, Oklahoma state Rep. Todd Russ (R) said that legislators discussed how the Roe ruling might affect other “conservative family battles” that have been decided by the Supreme Court, including Obergefell v. Hodges, the case that granted a constitutional right to same-sex marriage. The court’s decision on abortion, he added, might serve to highlight “just how many other things the Supreme Court has crammed down states’ throats over the last 50 years.”
He left the conference feeling optimistic about this new era in American history, he said.
“Now maybe we get to go back to all of our states’ rights.” (Emphasis added.) www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/25/roe-antiabortion-lawmakers-restrictions-state-legislatures/
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Roe V Wade
Jun 26, 2022 12:00:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on Jun 26, 2022 12:00:54 GMT -5
Another (legal/political) data point about the implications of the reasoning behind the Alito/Thomas decision: at the National Association of Christian Lawmakers conference on Friday, Oklahoma state Rep. Todd Russ (R) said that legislators discussed how the Roe ruling might affect other “conservative family battles” that have been decided by the Supreme Court, including Obergefell v. Hodges, the case that granted a constitutional right to same-sex marriage. The court’s decision on abortion, he added, might serve to highlight “just how many other things the Supreme Court has crammed down states’ throats over the last 50 years.”
He left the conference feeling optimistic about this new era in American history, he said.
“Now maybe we get to go back to all of our states’ rights.” (Emphasis added.) www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/25/roe-antiabortion-lawmakers-restrictions-state-legislatures/You say that like it's a bad thing.
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Post by james on Jun 26, 2022 12:05:35 GMT -5
The first abortion I didn’t have was in college. My period was five days late — at random, it turns out, due to stress from exams, blah blah blah — but in the five days before it arrived, I’d already Googled the nearest Planned Parenthood. The second abortion I didn’t have was in my 30s. Birth control had been religiously employed, and yet there they were: two pink lines and a future I’d never planned. While I tried to warm to the idea of motherhood, nature resolved the situation in the form of a miscarriage.
The third abortion I didn’t have was my daughter. That time, everything was planned. I was ready, and the reason I knew I was ready was that I didn’t think about an abortion, I thought about a baby name. As America waited like a rabbit in headlights for this decision to come down (and it turns out what we got was pretty much what the draft opinion had said we were going to get, Samuel Alito in all of his caustic, 19th-century glory), I heard from a lot of women about their abortions. But I heard from just as many women about the abortions they didn’t have. The options that were open to them. The choices they knew were theirs to choose, and the futures that unfurled because of that.
A friend was 16. First boyfriend, first broken condom. She went to her mother even before going to the drugstore for a pregnancy test. Her mother immediately said, “You don’t have to have a baby, we’ll get this taken care of.” The test turned out to be negative, but 20 years later, she still remembers her mother’s calm reassurance and the flood of relief that came with it.
Another friend told me about going to the doctor for an ultrasound in her second trimester. The sonographer’s lips pursed into a frown instead of a smile, then she scurried off to find a doctor. While my friend waited for more tests, she thought about how she might need to end a wanted pregnancy, because continuing it in those circumstances would have been, in her mind, unspeakably cruel.
False alarm, though. The baby was fine. She didn’t have to make the terrible decision, but she later told me that the only mercy she could find while waiting for those test results was in the idea that the terrible decision would at least have been hers.
“It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives,” Alito wrote. He meant that the issue should be taken away from the Supreme Court, but what it actually means is that the issue of women’s uteruses will be taken away from women......
.....I don’t think many men realize that — that abortion is a procedure many women have considered at least once in their lives, even if considering it meant deciding they would never do it.
The point was not having an abortion, Justice Alito. The point was knowing that your life didn’t have to be ruined. The point was that if you became accidentally pregnant, you didn’t have to give up the scholarship, the graduate program, the cross-country move. You didn’t have to be trapped in a miserable relationship by the financial needs of a baby. A single mistake didn’t have to punish you forever.
You can continue reading the Monica Hesse article in the Washington Post . No firewall. The abortions we didn’t have The right to choose abortion is vital, even when women don’t choose it
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 26, 2022 14:33:16 GMT -5
The first abortion I didn’t have was in college. My period was five days late — at random, it turns out, due to stress from exams, blah blah blah — but in the five days before it arrived, I’d already Googled the nearest Planned Parenthood. The second abortion I didn’t have was in my 30s. Birth control had been religiously employed, and yet there they were: two pink lines and a future I’d never planned. While I tried to warm to the idea of motherhood, nature resolved the situation in the form of a miscarriage.
The third abortion I didn’t have was my daughter. That time, everything was planned. I was ready, and the reason I knew I was ready was that I didn’t think about an abortion, I thought about a baby name. As America waited like a rabbit in headlights for this decision to come down (and it turns out what we got was pretty much what the draft opinion had said we were going to get, Samuel Alito in all of his caustic, 19th-century glory), I heard from a lot of women about their abortions. But I heard from just as many women about the abortions they didn’t have. The options that were open to them. The choices they knew were theirs to choose, and the futures that unfurled because of that.
A friend was 16. First boyfriend, first broken condom. She went to her mother even before going to the drugstore for a pregnancy test. Her mother immediately said, “You don’t have to have a baby, we’ll get this taken care of.” The test turned out to be negative, but 20 years later, she still remembers her mother’s calm reassurance and the flood of relief that came with it.
Another friend told me about going to the doctor for an ultrasound in her second trimester. The sonographer’s lips pursed into a frown instead of a smile, then she scurried off to find a doctor. While my friend waited for more tests, she thought about how she might need to end a wanted pregnancy, because continuing it in those circumstances would have been, in her mind, unspeakably cruel.
False alarm, though. The baby was fine. She didn’t have to make the terrible decision, but she later told me that the only mercy she could find while waiting for those test results was in the idea that the terrible decision would at least have been hers.
“It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives,” Alito wrote. He meant that the issue should be taken away from the Supreme Court, but what it actually means is that the issue of women’s uteruses will be taken away from women......
.....I don’t think many men realize that — that abortion is a procedure many women have considered at least once in their lives, even if considering it meant deciding they would never do it.
The point was not having an abortion, Justice Alito. The point was knowing that your life didn’t have to be ruined. The point was that if you became accidentally pregnant, you didn’t have to give up the scholarship, the graduate program, the cross-country move. You didn’t have to be trapped in a miserable relationship by the financial needs of a baby. A single mistake didn’t have to punish you forever.
You can continue reading the Monica Hesse article in the Washington Post . No firewall. The abortions we didn’t have The right to choose abortion is vital, even when women don’t choose it Monica lives in Illinois, still in very strong Democratic control with some of the most broadly permissive abortion laws in the country. There seems little chance that she'll ever see abortion seriously restricted ever. The Supreme Court decision will likely not impact her in any way.
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Post by theevan on Jun 26, 2022 14:57:45 GMT -5
Another personal anecdote I share with some trepidation...
Wendy's oldest was raped by two men at work when she was 15. It's a horrible account that resulted in a ruined life for many years. I'm happy to say she's doing wonderfully now but it's been a long hard road.
That rape resulted in the most unwanted pregnancy ever. But she brought it to term and Wendy raised that baby boy as her own. He is a unique and insanely talented young man that brings joy to many people.
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Post by jdd2 on Jun 26, 2022 15:14:34 GMT -5
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Post by concertinagirl on Jun 26, 2022 18:06:00 GMT -5
Another personal anecdote I share with some trepidation... Wendy raised that baby boy as her own. He is a unique and insanely talented young man that brings joy to many people. She’s an amazing woman...I suspect you already know that. Thank you for sharing this post.
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Post by Marshall on Jun 29, 2022 9:38:49 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 29, 2022 9:44:47 GMT -5
That's just the same old tired hysterical bullshit that's always used to argue this. Not a rational thought to be found.
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Post by Shannon on Jun 29, 2022 9:46:25 GMT -5
Marshall, my personal experience is that your cartoon represents only a tiny loud-mouthed minority of folks that oppose abortion. Unfortunately, they are often ones with some political position or another. But they are none-the-less not representative of us as a whole. I just want folks to know that.
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Post by Cornflake on Jun 29, 2022 11:20:11 GMT -5
It's not surprising that there are strong reactions to this decision. I've been surprised, though, at how strong some of the reactions have been from pro-choice women I know. One said yesterday that the Supreme Court had just given the government control over part of her body and she felt like a second-class citizen. This issue isn't going away any time soon.
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Post by jdd2 on Jun 29, 2022 16:33:39 GMT -5
If you're at a loss for words, this chart is not connected to any specific issue. I must admit there are a few combinations that I hadn't heard.
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Post by gbacklin on Jun 29, 2022 17:22:41 GMT -5
In all fairness, there was an opportunity to codify the issue, and was a campaign statement "the first thing I would do..." Newsweek
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Post by Village Idiot on Jun 29, 2022 17:58:06 GMT -5
I heard a couple high school girls being interviewed on NPR the other day. They were from the state of New York, which is apparently a safe-haven state. One said that she will be a senior in high school this fall and was planning on looking for a college to attend out of state, but now that doing so most likely wouldn't give her control over her body, her decision is to stay in her home state.
I was really disappointed in hearing that. The vast bulk of us who have supported Roe VS Wade weren't doing so to support girls who want to use abortion as a form of contraception. The vast majority of us who are saddened to hear the demise of Roe vs Wade supported abortion in only the direst or circumstances. Those girls just don't get it. At all. And they're making a whole bunch of us look bad.
(Not to mention I can't imagine what their parents thought if they heard the interview).
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Post by brucemacneill on Jun 29, 2022 18:19:00 GMT -5
I heard a couple high school girls being interviewed on NPR the other day. They were from the state of New York, which is apparently a safe-haven state. One said that she will be a senior in high school this fall and was planning on looking for a college to attend out of state, but now that doing so most likely wouldn't give her control over her body, her decision is to stay in her home state. I was really disappointed in hearing that. The vast bulk of us who have supported Roe VS Wade weren't doing so to support girls who want to use abortion as a form of contraception. The vast majority of us who are saddened to hear the demise of Roe vs Wade supported abortion in only the direst or circumstances. Those girls just don't get it. At all. And they're making a whole bunch of us look bad. (Not to mention I can't imagine what their parents thought if they heard the interview). Todd, sorry but I find you to be very naive. You routinely moderate with a left bias and I don't believe you are qualified to be a moderator on this forum. I have information from an unnamed but reliable source that you colluded with Hillary and will soon be investigated for lying by the new Republican administration.
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Post by John B on Jun 29, 2022 18:19:50 GMT -5
I heard a couple high school girls being interviewed on NPR the other day. They were from the state of New York, which is apparently a safe-haven state. One said that she will be a senior in high school this fall and was planning on looking for a college to attend out of state, but now that doing so most likely wouldn't give her control over her body, her decision is to stay in her home state. I was really disappointed in hearing that. The vast bulk of us who have supported Roe VS Wade weren't doing so to support girls who want to use abortion as a form of contraception. The vast majority of us who are saddened to hear the demise of Roe vs Wade supported abortion in only the direst or circumstances. Those girls just don't get it. At all. And they're making a whole bunch of us look bad. (Not to mention I can't imagine what their parents thought if they heard the interview). Why would you think she was going to be using it as a form of contraception, and not just wanting to make sure she had a choice in the direst of circumstances?
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Post by james on Jun 29, 2022 18:28:13 GMT -5
Abortion is not a form of contraception. It is a last resort when a girl or woman faces an unwanted pregnancy.
Bodily autonomy is a fundamental and essential liberty. Those girls almost certainly do get that.
ETA - I might need a transcript or a link to fully understand/evaluate what was said and meant by the remarks in context
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 29, 2022 18:29:27 GMT -5
I heard a couple high school girls being interviewed on NPR the other day. They were from the state of New York, which is apparently a safe-haven state. One said that she will be a senior in high school this fall and was planning on looking for a college to attend out of state, but now that doing so most likely wouldn't give her control over her body, her decision is to stay in her home state. I was really disappointed in hearing that. The vast bulk of us who have supported Roe VS Wade weren't doing so to support girls who want to use abortion as a form of contraception. The vast majority of us who are saddened to hear the demise of Roe vs Wade supported abortion in only the direst or circumstances. Those girls just don't get it. At all. And they're making a whole bunch of us look bad. (Not to mention I can't imagine what their parents thought if they heard the interview). So what state was she thinking of going to school in? Certainly not one of those redneck refuges. Heaven forbid! And New York, like California are probably never going to prohibit abortion probably up to and including young adulthood. So what's the problem? She's probably not going to permanently move away from NY until she's done with school so if she gets knocked up, she can go home on spring break and have the pregnancy terminated. Easy peasy. In, out, and back to school to continue to service the male students there.
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Post by james on Jun 29, 2022 18:36:59 GMT -5
Such a short but predictable step from "save the babies!" to "shame the whores!".
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 29, 2022 19:10:17 GMT -5
Such a short but predictable step from "save the babies!" to "shame the whores!". Well, not getting pregnant is pretty easy to do. So what's the big deal with leaving the state of New York because another state may or may not offer abortions?
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