|
|
Post by factorychef on Jan 11, 2024 18:10:43 GMT -5
That's what tRumpers do when they argue. If it's not going their way they start cussing.
|
|
|
|
Post by John B on Jan 11, 2024 19:18:23 GMT -5
For many Republicans, the visceral satisfaction of liberal anguish at a Trump restoration more than makes up for his flaws. That's in the 20% I think he gets wrong. Thanks for elaborating on your thoughts - we disagree on some points, but I feel like I understand your point of view better. |
|
|
|
Post by james on Jan 11, 2024 19:35:27 GMT -5
The NYT article is firewalled for me. I see it's by the perennially unreliable Bret Stephens and so am not particularly crestfallen.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cornflake on Jan 11, 2024 20:15:03 GMT -5
I like Bret Stephens. We disagree about almost everything but Trump. That's why he's worth reading.
(PS for those who don't know who Bret Stephens is. He was recruited as a conservative columnist for the New York Times. He is a genuine, old-school conservative. That's why I benefit from reading what he thinks. But he's very, very anti-Trump.)
|
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Jan 11, 2024 22:24:09 GMT -5
So honest question here, do you just assume that when pollsters ask who people are voting for and they're coming up with a greater percentage of them saying "Trump" than Biden, and any other declared Republican candidate is polling in single digits compared to Trump, that the pollsters just have it plain wrong? I mean, I can think of quite a few reasons why I think he shouldn't win, but a whole lot of people (or a few really loud people) are saying that it is a serious possibility. My math is assuming that friction, wind resistance, serious voting irregularities and Grisham/Baldacci/Child plots do not exist, or at least are not plausible. I don't believe polls. I could go into why, but that doesn't matter. I don't believe them. And if you are right and Biden won 2020 fair and square, the same dynamic is in play and intact. And if I'm right and Biden did not win fair and square, well then, the same apparatus is still in place. I can't see any way Trump could ever be president again. In fact, the reason Trump leads the Rs is the same reason he led in 2016. It proved a dangerous game back then. No longer. I'd definitely agree with much of that if it weren't for one single wild card in the whole process. Just found out today that Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo will be heard by the Supreme Court next week on Wednesday, the 17th. For those that aren't as personally invested in seeing Massachusetts v. EPA obliterated you've probably never heard of this but it stands to completely destroy the way the government has worked, or should I say not worked, for the last 40 years. It's widely expected to reverse Chevron v. NRDC decided in 1984. Chevron established the precedent of "Chevron deference" which holds that if the underlying authorizing legislation that defines the scope of an agencies regulatory power is unclear, the Court defers to the agency's interpretation to resolve it. That has led to Loper where, in short, some fishing businesses in New England are forced to pay the salaries of the government employees who enforce the rules that the fisheries have to operate under. This, in effect, raises the regulated fisheries operating costs by 20%. All because Congress, when it wrote the authorizing legislation, forgot to include how the Federal employees involved would be funded thus allowing the agency discretion to bill the fisheries for their time. Yes, it's that stupid. Now in the intervening decades this idiocy has led to all kinds of a) legislation that's very poorly written, and b) regulatory agencies that are out of control. The most egregious example (and the one I've been personally involved in and had me and my family's life destroyed by) is 2007's Massachusetts v. EPA that ruled that CO 2 is a "pollutant" that can be regulated by EPA. I'll spare you the boring technical details but I'll just offer that it's physically absurd and incredibly stupid no matter how much the activists scream about "global warming". This fraud has now extended to the actual banning of internal combustion engines in vehicles of all sorts by 2035 by the EPA. Hey John, you're going to love delivering mail, or maybe in winter thinking about trying to get the mail delivered when your brand new $70,000 EV once your dumb, little, affordable used vehicles get physically banned. Whoopie! Just think of what you're supposedly doing for the environment and you'll feel better. Anyways, this goes a long way to explaining why Trump is officially the most hated man in history with Justice Clarence Thomas catching up fast. In short, much of the Federal government Deep State bloat could be wiped out in an instant. It also reveals in stark contrast just how far our democracy has fallen in the last 40 years. Seriously. Anybody here ever vote to ban internal combustion engines? Did any of your elected representatives in Congress vote to do that? Can anyone point to a bill that's passed both houses of Congress that did that? That's how far down the rabbit hole of totalitarianism we've fallen at the hands of political progressives. And once it becomes obvious that Trump, rather than being some unhinged freak of a tyrant, is actually the first politician ever to come close to restoring democracy in this country, I have a feeling that Democrats probably will be blown out for supporting and exploiting this for so long. |
|
|
|
Post by John B on Jan 11, 2024 22:34:42 GMT -5
I don't think Chevron will get tossed. I have a feeling the court will try to somehow split the difference. I don't know enough about it to know if that's even possible. I suppose after next Wednesday we'll have a better idea of where we might be headed.
|
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Jan 11, 2024 22:51:26 GMT -5
I don't think Chevron will get tossed. I have a feeling the court will try to somehow split the difference. I don't know enough about it to know if that's even possible. I suppose after next Wednesday we'll have a better idea of where we might be headed. Thomas and Alito, at least, have publicly said they think it was a horrible decision. And I've read that Scalia's son has said that Antonin, while originally proud of it, in later years when it became apparent what a f'up it turned out to be, deeply regretted it. I think with this court that Trump created, I don't think any of it will survive. |
|
|
|
Post by millring on Jan 12, 2024 5:39:37 GMT -5
Even if the court rules as you think it should/will , it won't make any difference. The battle for the American mind has already been lost (or won if you like where we are and where we're headed). A court ruling won't change minds. Did you ever ride your bike off the edge of the road? ...you can try for as long as you can stay upright to wobble yourself back up to the pavement (but you will eventually fall), or you can ride uncomfortably in the ditch (but you will eventually fall). That's where we are. We're more comfortable on the shoulder. Every attempt to get back on the pavement is too scary to even try. And who knows? ...if our institutions -- the press, academia, and government by professionals -- is correct about things, maybe we're better off in the ditch. Maybe we're riding off-road bikes.
|
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Jan 12, 2024 6:10:32 GMT -5
Even if the court rules as you think it should/will , it won't make any difference. The battle for the American mind has already been lost (or won if you like where we are and where we're headed). A court ruling won't change minds. Possibly. Except it will be hard to ignore if suddenly climate change becomes an irrelevant issue since nobody can force anyone to do anything about it. And EVs go back to being the niche vehicles they always have been. And Biden's unholy government spending spree loses the impetus to continue. And EPA has much of its current bullying authority stripped. And Congress is forced back into actually legislating, risking their lucrative grift. And it suddenly matters who you, as an individual, vote for. And that's just what I know. The ultimate destruction will be much broader than that. 40 years broader. |
|
|
|
Post by millring on Jan 12, 2024 6:20:11 GMT -5
I don't think Chevron will get tossed. I have a feeling the court will try to somehow split the difference. I don't know enough about it to know if that's even possible. I suppose after next Wednesday we'll have a better idea of where we might be headed. That's certainly the way the court has operated in our lifetime. Legislating. |
|
|
|
Post by John B on Jan 12, 2024 7:20:30 GMT -5
Even if the court rules as you think it should/will , it won't make any difference. The battle for the American mind has already been lost (or won if you like where we are and where we're headed). A court ruling won't change minds. Possibly. Except it will be hard to ignore if suddenly climate change becomes an irrelevant issue since nobody can force anyone to do anything about it. And EVs go back to being the niche vehicles they always have been. And Biden's unholy government spending spree loses the impetus to continue. And EPA has much of its current bullying authority stripped. And Congress is forced back into actually legislating, risking their lucrative grift. And it suddenly matters who you, as an individual, vote for. And that's just what I know. The ultimate destruction will be much broader than that. 40 years broader. I don't know that I've ever heard you sound so optimistic about the future. |
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Jan 12, 2024 8:57:34 GMT -5
Possibly. Except it will be hard to ignore if suddenly climate change becomes an irrelevant issue since nobody can force anyone to do anything about it. And EVs go back to being the niche vehicles they always have been. And Biden's unholy government spending spree loses the impetus to continue. And EPA has much of its current bullying authority stripped. And Congress is forced back into actually legislating, risking their lucrative grift. And it suddenly matters who you, as an individual, vote for. And that's just what I know. The ultimate destruction will be much broader than that. 40 years broader. I don't know that I've ever heard you sound so optimistic about the future. I've been watching this closely and hoping for this for almost 14 years. In the meantime, I've gone bankrupt, moved 6 times in 3 years, kept my family together, been blamed for all the misery, had horrific fights, held 5 jobs and counting, purchased our final home with a 15 year mortgage, am on the verge of paying off that mortgage in only 8.5 years, travelled for work until I've been ready to puke, seen Michigan win the college football championship and the Lions outright win their division for the first time in 30 years (when my son was born) and play their first playoff game in Ford Field since it was built in 2002. And if EPA's right to regulate CO2 is obliterated, I stand a decent chance of getting the job that caused this back. Pardon the French, but f**k yes I'm optimistic about the future. |
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Jan 12, 2024 9:15:33 GMT -5
Even if the court rules as you think it should/will , it won't make any difference. The battle for the American mind has already been lost (or won if you like where we are and where we're headed). A court ruling won't change minds. Did you ever ride your bike off the edge of the road? ...you can try for as long as you can stay upright to wobble yourself back up to the pavement (but you will eventually fall), or you can ride uncomfortably in the ditch (but you will eventually fall). That's where we are. We're more comfortable on the shoulder. Every attempt to get back on the pavement is too scary to even try. And who knows? ...if our institutions -- the press, academia, and government by professionals -- is correct about things, maybe we're better off in the ditch. Maybe we're riding off-road bikes. I like you a lot John. I consider you a good friend. I’m sad for your view of the country. I hope you’re more wrong than right. But I still like you a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Jan 12, 2024 9:16:14 GMT -5
You too, Peter.
|
|
|
|
Post by millring on Jan 12, 2024 10:36:59 GMT -5
Even if the court rules as you think it should/will , it won't make any difference. The battle for the American mind has already been lost (or won if you like where we are and where we're headed). A court ruling won't change minds. Did you ever ride your bike off the edge of the road? ...you can try for as long as you can stay upright to wobble yourself back up to the pavement (but you will eventually fall), or you can ride uncomfortably in the ditch (but you will eventually fall). That's where we are. We're more comfortable on the shoulder. Every attempt to get back on the pavement is too scary to even try. And who knows? ...if our institutions -- the press, academia, and government by professionals -- is correct about things, maybe we're better off in the ditch. Maybe we're riding off-road bikes. I like you a lot John. I consider you a good friend. I’m sad for your view of the country. I hope you’re more wrong than right. But I still like you a lot. I'm not making it real clear, but if I'm right you win and if I'm wrong you win. Maybe we're on off road bikes.. The left won the hearts and minds and that's what it takes to shape a country. If you're right we all win. |
|
|
|
Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2024 10:38:42 GMT -5
And Marshall, I like you (even though I often agree with you).
|
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Jan 12, 2024 10:50:39 GMT -5
Don't be sad for me. Not everyone gets a shot at saving his country and maybe the world. |
|
|
|
Post by james on Jan 12, 2024 10:53:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Jan 12, 2024 12:18:37 GMT -5
Ah! No wonder Gorsuch was Trump's first choice. Didn't know that. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2024 13:01:54 GMT -5
If I were a Lions fan, I, too, would be optimistic. Given what it unfortunately is for me... it's all going to hell in a handbasket.
(until Hell freezes over, then it's SKOAL, brother!)
|
|
