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Post by John B on Aug 7, 2019 15:13:50 GMT -5
Gaslight was a great movie. 1944, with Charles Boyer, Ingrid Bergman and a young Angela Lansbury.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Aug 7, 2019 15:15:51 GMT -5
How soon do you think it will be until California doesn't have anyone left there? Oh, they’ll never run out of people. Money to pay for them all long-term, however, is another concern.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 7, 2019 15:17:27 GMT -5
Oh, they’ll never run out of people. Money to pay for them all long-term, however, is another concern. So climate change may be their only hope?
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Aug 7, 2019 15:43:57 GMT -5
Update:
According to White House spokesman, Dan Scavino, shooting victims in Dayton greeted Trump like a "rock star."
So now he's happy again.
Wait.
Breaking: Trump himself taking to Twitter Gadget.
Very unhappy that elected Democrats were not sufficiently obsequious to Great Leader.
More tragedy!
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 7, 2019 15:52:46 GMT -5
Update: According to White House spokesman, Dan Scavino, shooting victims in Dayton greeted Trump like a "rock star." So now he's happy again. Wait. Breaking: Trump himself taking to Twitter Gadget. Very unhappy that elected Democrats were not sufficiently obsequious to Great Leader. More tragedy! You do seem quite hate-filled. Have you been checked for TDS?
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Aug 7, 2019 16:09:22 GMT -5
Update: According to White House spokesman, Dan Scavino, shooting victims in Dayton greeted Trump like a "rock star." So now he's happy again. Wait. Breaking: Trump himself taking to Twitter Gadget. Very unhappy that elected Democrats were not sufficiently obsequious to Great Leader. More tragedy! You do seem quite hate-filled. Have you been checked for TDS? You think Trump making himself the victim is not a little strange? That’s a bit deranged.
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Post by millring on Aug 7, 2019 17:08:59 GMT -5
FWIW, John, "gaslighting" has been around for a long time in feminist conversations, and it has finally worked its way into general discourse. (The footnotes in the Wikipedia article trace is usage back more than forty years.) It started as a description of domestic or interpersonal behavior and in the last few years has been scaled up to include the efforts of partisan operators to undermine the confidence of opponents. "Who are you going to believe, me or your own lying eyes?" I know. But suddenly it's all around social media in a new context and it would be instructive to know who everyone is copying.
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 7, 2019 17:11:55 GMT -5
You do seem quite hate-filled. Have you been checked for TDS? You think Trump making himself the victim is not a little strange? That’s a bit deranged. Trump doesn't have to make himself the victim. The media makes him the victim.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Aug 7, 2019 17:20:27 GMT -5
You think Trump making himself the victim is not a little strange? That’s a bit deranged. Trump doesn't have to make himself the victim. The media makes him the victim. I am old enough to remember Presidents who took criticism like adults, not victims. Crazy, huh?
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Post by billhammond on Aug 7, 2019 17:33:30 GMT -5
You think Trump making himself the victim is not a little strange? That’s a bit deranged. Trump doesn't have to make himself the victim. The media makes him the victim. Like these media that reported on what Trump and his spokesman tweeted shortly after his visit to the Dayton hospital? Please, do cite for us all, the horrible things that the mayor and the senator said at the press conference to deserve such comments? WASHINGTON – Hours after visiting with victims and first responders from the mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, the White House said President Donald Trump was treated like a "rock star" and criticized several Ohio lawmakers for "mischaracterizing" the visit. Dan Scavino, White House director of social media and assistant to the president, in several posts on Twitter criticized what he says were mischaracterizations" of Trump's visit to Miami Valley Hospital in Dayton. Reporters were held in a holding room during Trump's visit. "Very SAD to see Ohio Senator Brown, & Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley - LYING & completely mischaracterizing what took place w/ the President’s visit to Miami Valley Hospital today," Scavino wrote in a tweet. "They are disgraceful politicians, doing nothing but politicizing a mass shooting, at every turn they can." "The President was treated like a Rock Star inside the hospital, which was all caught on video," he continued. "They all loved seeing their great President!" Dayton mayor on Trump:'I think he heard me, but I don’t know if he’ll take action.' Trump in his own tweet also criticized Brown and Whaley, saying that they are "misrepresenting what took place inside of the hospital." "Just left Dayton, Ohio, where I met with the Victims & families, Law Enforcement, Medical Staff & First Responders. It was a warm & wonderful visit. Tremendous enthusiasm & even Love," Trump wrote on Twitter. "Their news conference after I left for El Paso was a fraud," Trump continued on the two lawmakers. "It bore no resemblance to what took place with those incredible people that I was so lucky to meet and spend time with. They were all amazing!" The Cincinnati Enquirer, a member of the USA TODAY Network, was with Whaley when she found out about the tweets from an aide as she sat in a booth in a local restaurant talking to reporters, with a cup of coffee and soda in front of her to give her an energy boost. “Where is it, I don’t see it,” Whaley said looking at her phone. “I’m confused. We said he was treated very well. I don’t know what he’s talking about misrepresenting.” "Oh well. He lives in his world of Twitter," she added. In a follow-up Tweet, Scavino tweeted photos from the president's visit, adding: "Some extremely powerful moments throughout the entire visit, with so much enthusiasm and love, contrary to what the Trump Hating Dems would ever share or say." However, the White House's characterization seems to be at odds with what Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, and Whaley said of Trump's visit. Both politicians accompanied Trump on his visit. During a press conference after Trump's visit to the hospital, the two officials said that they believe the victims and first responders appreciated the president's visit. "He was received well by the patients as you'd expect," Brown said. "They're hurting. He was comforting and he did the right things. Melania did the right things. It's his job in part to comfort people." "I'm glad he did it in those hospital rooms," Brown continued. "I think the victims and the first responders were grateful that the President of the United States came to Dayton," Whaley said. Brown also discussed his own meeting with Trump, saying that he called on Trump to ask Republicans to open a special session in the Senate so the chamber could vote on a gun background check bill that the House of Representatives passed earlier this year. "He only said 'we will get things done,'" Brown said. He added that he also called on Trump to not repeal the Affordable Care Act if the president cares about mental health. Throughout his tenure, Trump has tried to repeal the ACA. Brown also said that during Trump's visit with first responders, the president offered to give the police officers awards. Police responded to the shooter in less than 30 seconds. Nine people were killed and several others were injured. However, Brown said he responded with: 'Mr. President, respectfully ... the most important thing you can do for these police officers is take assault weapons off the street so they don't have to go up against those assault weapons." Whaley said that during a "pretty brief" meeting with Trump, she told him that "the people of Dayton are waiting for action from Washington, D.C." She also noted that she was grateful that the president did not go to the Oregon District of Dayton, where the shooting took place. Whaley ahead of Trump's visit said that the president's "rhetoric has been painful for many in our community." "A lot of the time his talk can be very divisive, and that’s the last thing we need in Dayton," Whaley said Wednesday afternoon following the hospital visit.
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Post by Russell Letson on Aug 7, 2019 17:37:42 GMT -5
John--less a new context than an expanded one, and given the number of lefties who are also interested in domestic-violence/abuse issues, the leakage was inevitable there's probably not a single source. It's not much of a stretch when dealing with Sarah Sanders' barefaced denials and Kellyanne Conway's alternative facts. Though there's probably a lexicographer or grad student somewhere sifting through blogs and op-ed pieces looking for early adapters.
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 7, 2019 17:44:23 GMT -5
Let me tell you a true story. I'll omit the names because they're irrelevant but they remind me of you.
A couple of years ago a cop was shot in New Orleans.
A few weeks later I saw a post on Facebook claiming the cop was shot by a white supremacist member of "Sovereign Citizen". That wasn't the way I remembered the news story. I remembered the shooter as being black and I couldn't figure out why a black guy would be a member of "Sovereign Citizen". Of course I'd never heard of "Sovereign Citizen" so I started my research. Google is your friend, sometimes. First I found the story of the shooting and yes the shooter was black. Then I had to find out what "Sovereign Citizen" was. That was harder but I did find reference to a "Sovereign Citizen" group in Australia wanting to secede from Australia and form a separate country. There was reference to a similar group in the U.S. that had disbanded back in the '70s and sources weren't sure the Australian group still exists either. Further investigation found a current group using the "Sovereign Citizen" name but it's a black separatist group that wants Indian reservation like areas of the U.S. designated for blacks only with the same sovereign powers over those area the Indians have over the reservations. Incidentally, that group claimed no knowledge of the shooter and was sure he wasn't a member. The shooter's manifesto claimed he "supported" "Sovereign Citizen". It didn't say he was a member. I reported my findings to the original Facebook poster but as far as I know he didn't believe me and continued to think the shooter was a white supremacist.
So, I ask you, is "Sovereign Citizen" responsible for the cop getting shot?
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 7, 2019 17:55:03 GMT -5
Hey, Democrat's made Trump. If they could purchase an ounce of humility, they might have a race in 2020.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Aug 7, 2019 18:09:16 GMT -5
Folks, this one will raise some eyebrows. Right up front, it’s well worth mentioning that a country like Norway has about as many people as a medium sized state, so a single horrific event like the guy killing 8 people and injuring a couple hundred more with a bomb, and THEN continuing on to kill 69 more and injure another 110 or so with a Glock pistol will forever skew the per capita mass shooting numbers; it would be as if Nevada was a European country, and the Vegas/Mandalay Bay concert shooting happened. Similar deal with events like Breslan. As well, the Feds define mass shooting as 4 or more in one event; congress has its own criteria, and as the article mentions, getting accurate counts from other countries can be dicey, depending upon their level of development and resources for reporting data. Still, in all, this article speaks to a point I made earlier about dropping the shitty ‘hoods in Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, Memphis and Detroit and being left with on of the most peaceful times and places in human history. Check this out, and remember, per capita, as opposed to gross total: worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/"There is a common misconception that the United States is one of the top few countries, if not the top country, that have the highest mass shooting rates.
In 2015, the United States was actually number sixty-six on the list of countries in terms of mass shooting rates according to a study done by the Crime Prevention Research Center. In this study, looking at the United States alongside all the countries in Europe alone, the United States has the 12th highest mass shooting rate. A few of the European countries with a higher mass shooting rate than the United States include Russia, Norway, France, Switzerland and Finland. More recent studies about mass shootings by country are still being conducted."
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Post by billhammond on Aug 7, 2019 18:10:16 GMT -5
Are you referring to me, Bruce?
If so, how in thee hell do these folks remind you of me?
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 7, 2019 18:26:25 GMT -5
Are you referring to me, Bruce? If so, how in thee hell do these folks remind you of me? Oh, no, Bill, I was referring to casualplayerpaul. I suspect your post came while I was trying to carefully write mine. Sorry for the confusion.
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Post by Russell Letson on Aug 7, 2019 18:29:35 GMT -5
Bruce, it's useful to distinguish between a movement or belief-set and an organization. In the US, the sovereign-citizen notion seems to have risen among militias and Posse Comitatus groups--those are organizations using a version of the libertarian s-c idea as part of their political model. I also recall similar idea-sets circulating in this part of Minnesota when we moved here 42 years ago--guys who claimed that they didn't owe any federal taxes, that the fringes on the flags in courtrooms meant that the court lacked jurisdiction over them, and so on. (In our neck of the woods, they also refused to recognize Vatican II changes in Catholic liturgy--we even had a rebel priest offering only the Tridentine Mass in his parish.) I know you won't like the source, but Mother Jones has an account of a black Baton Rouge cop-killer and s-c enthusiast that traces the origins of the idea back to Posse Comitatus white nationalists and adds that the ideas appeal to some black sovereign citizen groups, where "the anti-government sentiment often takes the form of leftist pan-Africanism and black separatism." www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/gavin-long-sovereign-citizen-posse-comitatus-patriot-militias/These crackpot ideas and groups have a long history and cross racial lines. And the ideas float free, like the measles virus.
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 7, 2019 18:34:29 GMT -5
Are you referring to me, Bruce? If so, how in thee hell do these folks remind you of me? Oh, no, Bill, I was referring to casualplayerpaul. I suspect your post came while I was trying to carefully write mine. Sorry for the confusion. Just read your post. I haven't been watching the news today so I don't know who said what to or about who. Your post makes it seem a little 2 faced at worst, started talking about the good things Trump did but the finished with the actions they asked him to take that sounded to me like standard anti-gun stuff. Trump might have been referring to that but again, I don't know what was said or what happened. If I decide I care, which I may not, maybe I'll research it tomorrow. I'm tired. Anyway, sorry about the confusion.
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Post by billhammond on Aug 7, 2019 18:35:30 GMT -5
Are you referring to me, Bruce? If so, how in thee hell do these folks remind you of me? Oh, no, Bill, I was referring to casualplayerpaul. I suspect your post came while I was trying to carefully write mine. Sorry for the confusion. Whew, OK, thanks. Nonetheless, I'd be interested in your response to my questions about the response of Trump and his spokesman to the Dayton press conference and comments by the mayor and senator. They seemed to me to be totally straightforward and calm, certainly no words to merit accusations of "lying," "disgraceful" and "a fraud." This between AF1 visits to ostensibly calm the nation? Can this man never shut the hell up?
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 7, 2019 18:36:12 GMT -5
Bruce, it's useful to distinguish between a movement or belief-set and an organization. In the US, the sovereign-citizen notion seems to have risen among militias and Posse Comitatus groups--those are organizations using a version of the libertarian s-c idea as part of their political model. I also recall similar idea-sets circulating in this part of Minnesota when we moved here 42 years ago--guys who claimed that they didn't owe any federal taxes, that the fringes on the flags in courtrooms meant that the court lacked jurisdiction over them, and so on. (In our neck of the woods, they also refused to recognize Vatican II changes in Catholic liturgy--we even had a rebel priest offering only the Tridentine Mass in his parish.) I know you won't like the source, but Mother Jones has an account of a black Baton Rouge cop-killer and s-c enthusiast that traces the origins of the idea back to Posse Comitatus white nationalists and adds that the ideas appeal to some black sovereign citizen groups, where "the anti-government sentiment often takes the form of leftist pan-Africanism and black separatism." www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/gavin-long-sovereign-citizen-posse-comitatus-patriot-militias/These crackpot ideas and groups have a long history and cross racial lines. And the ideas float free, like the measles virus. Similar to TDS then.
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