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Post by epaul on Oct 6, 2019 21:06:09 GMT -5
Did ePaul go off his meds or is it just that schools are back in session so he has to act like a Democrat? I wasn't aware that cooking sherry qualified as a "med." Seems to serve the same purpose, though, so I'll go with it. Plus: no 25% tariff! It all started four years ago at Idiot Jam. Jeff asked me if I wanted to try a fine cigar. I said sure. One puff and it was, "Wow! This cigar really is good. What is it?" "It's a Swisher Sweet. I know a guy who knows a guy who gets me a good deal on them. Do you want to know what makes them so good?" I shouldn't have asked. But, I did. "No, what makes them so good?" "Cooking sherry. You want to try some straight? I have a 30 gallon drum of it back at the motel. And I got more Swishers. Double dipped!" At that point, it was already too late. "More Swishers? A drum of the good stuff? Lead on, new best friend." And life has never been the same. Or better.
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Dub
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I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
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Post by Dub on Oct 6, 2019 21:37:23 GMT -5
No, I believe it’s Kieth Richards. Hard believe he ever looked that young. Of course he’s younger than I am.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 6, 2019 21:38:23 GMT -5
This ukraine thing wouldn't have gone off the rails like it has if someone with the best insider experience working there had still been around. Too bad manafort is in prison, eh?
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Post by Cornflake on Oct 6, 2019 22:11:32 GMT -5
"If any of you care to look at reporting outside of the NYT and WaPo go read some John Solomon or Sara Carter. Look at their references and see if there is not, maybe, possibly, just a chance- even though you can't stand him- that DT has been unfairly investigated, attacked, lied about, and vilified by some pretty underhanded politicians, agents of the government, and partisan reporters.
"This does not mean I think he knows what he is doing, is a nice person, or knows the difference between bullshit and reality. I'm just talking about what is fair and right in my eyes. I love you guys (mostly) but we just don't see things the same way."
Alan, I love you back. And I respect you so I'll explain why I disagree.
As for the Russia investigation, it's inconceivable to me that we wouldn't have investigated whether a foreign government interfered with our election. The investigator was a Republican who drew bipartisan praise. I expected Trump to welcome the investigation so as to clear his name. He didn't, which I still find odd and suspicious.
The press may have been a little harder on him than on other presidents. He brought quite a bit of that on himself. He didn't help himself by declaring the press to be the enemy of the people, etc. The intelligence community doesn't love him. He started by firing a Republican director who was reportedly popular with his subordinates. He's not my guy but he was theirs. He then expressed more confidence in Putin than in what his intelligence agencies told him. Piss off the press and the secret police and you can expect flak.
The supposedly Trump-hating Democrats controlled the House for the better part of two years without making a move to impeach him.
Then he asked a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political opponent. He has basically admitted doing so. Any unfairness he has theoretically suffered goes out the window. That's about as impeachable as anything gets, even if you ignore the obvious extortion. The Democrats who didn't want to impeach him could no longer refrain. Good for them. To hear in response that we haven't been fair to the poor guy is not exactly persuasive to me. It's irrelevant. The guy has abused the public trust. Impeachment won't get rid of him but my admiration goes to those who are now supporting it anyway.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 7, 2019 4:52:13 GMT -5
"If any of you care to look at reporting outside of the NYT and WaPo go read some John Solomon or Sara Carter. Look at their references and see if there is not, maybe, possibly, just a chance- even though you can't stand him- that DT has been unfairly investigated, attacked, lied about, and vilified by some pretty underhanded politicians, agents of the government, and partisan reporters. "This does not mean I think he knows what he is doing, is a nice person, or knows the difference between bullshit and reality. I'm just talking about what is fair and right in my eyes. I love you guys (mostly) but we just don't see things the same way." Alan, I love you back. And I respect you so I'll explain why I disagree. As for the Russia investigation, it's inconceivable to me that we wouldn't have investigated whether a foreign government interfered with our election. The investigator was a Republican who drew bipartisan praise. I expected Trump to welcome the investigation so as to clear his name. He didn't, which I still find odd and suspicious. The press may have been a little harder on him than on other presidents. He brought quite a bit of that on himself. He didn't help himself by declaring the press to be the enemy of the people, etc. The intelligence community doesn't love him. He started by firing a Republican director who was reportedly popular with his subordinates. He's not my guy but he was theirs. He then expressed more confidence in Putin than in what his intelligence agencies told him. Piss off the press and the secret police and you can expect flak. The supposedly Trump-hating Democrats controlled the House for the better part of two years without making a move to impeach him. Then he asked a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political opponent. He has basically admitted doing so. Any unfairness he has theoretically suffered goes out the window. That's about as impeachable as anything gets, even if you ignore the obvious extortion. The Democrats who didn't want to impeach him could no longer refrain. Good for them. To hear in response that we haven't been fair to the poor guy is not exactly persuasive to me. It's irrelevant. The guy has abused the public trust. Impeachment won't get rid of him but my admiration goes to those who are now supporting it anyway. That's the Democrat party line anyway.
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Post by AlanC on Oct 7, 2019 7:16:51 GMT -5
Bruce, let me just say that I know Cornflake personally and he is one of the good guys. He gave me his opinion. Don't think I agree with a lot of it but that's OK.
I don't think he spouts anybody's line. He is his own man and a good friend.
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Post by lar on Oct 7, 2019 10:48:08 GMT -5
Dub, thanks for sharing these articles. I think they are meaningful. I must admit that I fully understand the piece about Clinton, AR and the attitudes of some of the residents. I think the author's reference to the opposition to funding the library via a tax increase the might add $20 to the real estate taxes of someone with a $100,000 house says a great deal about the divide between large urban areas and rural communities. $20 doesn't seem like much. It's not if you have $20. If you don't have $20 it seems like a great deal of money. The author seems to think that the attitudes in Clinton show that the residents don't care about helping their neighbors. I'd be willing to bet that's a flawed conclusion. Those of us who are familiar with rural communities and how they work have endless stories of people pitching in to help neighbors in trouble. Most often those stories involve contributing hard work and sweat, covered dishes, and donations of things people no longer need. There isn't a lot of money involved because a lot of folks just don't have much money available. The story of Clinton I read was that of a community that learned how to spend when tax money was available and now are struggling to make good choices about funding public initiatives now that the tax money isn't there any more. There are very tough decisions to be made. The reality is that the local government can't maintain funding for everything now that revenue has been reduced. The arguments tend to boil down to defining the difference between needs and wants. People on both sides can, in good faith, have differing opinions about both. I think Ms. Potts got Clinton all wrong. Just because the prevailing opinions don't conform to hers she writes off the locals as ignorant and self-absorbed. Based on what she has described I see a community vitally concerned about their future and making very hard decisions about how to employ the resources they have available. Maureen Dowd's article was well written. She's a talented writer and I usually enjoy her writing even when I disagree with her. But writing, "Even if Donald Trump is impeached, we know now that the Russians have figured out how to rig our elections.", is a bit much even for Ms. Dowd. We don't know anything of the sort. I believe that what we know is that the Russian's attempted to interfere. I don't believe anyone has been able to quantify the degree to which they may have succeeded. I put that statement in the same circular file as Trump's outrageous statements that are followed by, "And everybody knows it."
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Post by millring on Oct 7, 2019 11:32:53 GMT -5
Robert Mueller is a Republican.
::drops mic::
My mom told me a long time ago that you're not ready for a debate unless you can present all sides of an argument to the satisfaction of all those on the various sides of an issue. When the comment is made that "Robert Mueller is a Republican" as though that is germane to the central issue, I know that the alternative point of view is not only not being argued against, it isn't even understood. Probably never even been heard.
It doesn't matter which "side" is right or wrong or has the story straight. If you think Mueller being a Republican has anything to do with it, you don't understand what is being claimed.
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Post by AlanC on Oct 7, 2019 11:38:57 GMT -5
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 7, 2019 12:29:59 GMT -5
Robert Mueller is a Republican. ::drops mic:: My mom told me a long time ago that you're not ready for a debate unless you can present all sides of an argument to the satisfaction of all those on the various sides of an issue. When the comment is made that "Robert Mueller is a Republican" as though that is germane to the central issue, I know that the alternative point of view is not only not being argued against, it isn't even understood. Probably never even been heard. An effective debater certainly anticipates and understands an opponent's assumptions, evidence, and general logic. But that does not necessarily require explicitly outlining them. I take "Mueller is a Republican" remarks to be responses to frequent assertions that Trump is being attacked only by his political opponents, and/or that anyone who is not an ally is a political opponent and always was. These enemies range from deep-state operatives to "Obama people" to never-Trump Republicans to what were once called RINOs. "Mueller is a Republican" operates in an environment in which a reasonable reply to the "my poltical enemies are out to get me" complaint is "even Republicans?"
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Post by millring on Oct 7, 2019 13:38:42 GMT -5
Robert Mueller is a Republican. ::drops mic:: My mom told me a long time ago that you're not ready for a debate unless you can present all sides of an argument to the satisfaction of all those on the various sides of an issue. When the comment is made that "Robert Mueller is a Republican" as though that is germane to the central issue, I know that the alternative point of view is not only not being argued against, it isn't even understood. Probably never even been heard. An effective debater certainly anticipates and understands an opponent's assumptions, evidence, and general logic. But that does not necessarily require explicitly outlining them. I take "Mueller is a Republican" remarks to be responses to frequent assertions that Trump is being attacked only by his political opponents, and/or that anyone who is not an ally is a political opponent and always was. These enemies range from deep-state operatives to "Obama people" to never-Trump Republicans to what were once called RINOs. "Mueller is a Republican" operates in an environment in which a reasonable reply to the "my poltical enemies are out to get me" complaint is "even Republicans?" Exactly. I couldn't have said it better. And that's not the argument.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Oct 7, 2019 13:41:18 GMT -5
I think Ms. Potts got Clinton all wrong. Just because the prevailing opinions don't conform to hers she writes off the locals as ignorant and self-absorbed. Based on what she has described I see a community vitally concerned about their future and making very hard decisions about how to employ the resources they have available. Maureen Dowd's article was well written. She's a talented writer and I usually enjoy her writing even when I disagree with her. But writing, "Even if Donald Trump is impeached, we know now that the Russians have figured out how to rig our elections.", is a bit much even for Ms. Dowd. We don't know anything of the sort. I believe that what we know is that the Russian's attempted to interfere. I don't believe anyone has been able to quantify the degree to which they may have succeeded. I put that statement in the same circular file as Trump's outrageous statements that are followed by, "And everybody knows it." Yeah, I thought Potts was off on some of her analysis as well. I’ll bet these people still help each other pull down an old barn or shingle a house. But remember that Potts was born and raised in Clinton, AR, and actually knows many of the families there. She undoubtedly sees changes in her hometown somewhat differently than we might. I’m guessing the book she is working on while there will be interesting. Fiddlerina and I have driven through Clinton but didn’t pay attention or stop. We were attending an event in Mountain View and took part of a day to tour the larger area. It’s a pretty interesting area, sociologically, and quite different than rural Iowa and Nebraska. Dowd’s point was that every aspect of our society has become corrupt and I think I agree with her. It no longer matters whether the Republicans or the Democrats come out on top. The “good guys” are always going to lose.
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Post by millring on Oct 7, 2019 13:52:11 GMT -5
It no longer matters whether the Republicans or the Democrats come out on top. The “good guys” are always going to lose. +1 (except in the end )
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 7, 2019 14:01:19 GMT -5
John, I guess I don't know what the "central issue" to which "Mueller is a Republican" is not germane to might be. (Getting that syntax straight took some doing.) MiaR (so I don't have to keep typing it) is a response to one group of Trumpian assertions about who's for or agin him.
I'm aware of any number of "alternative point(s) of view," and I flatter myself that I have not only heard them but can parse them, even if the epistemological or political-theoretical universes from which they issue strike me as deeply flawed.
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Post by millring on Oct 7, 2019 14:04:27 GMT -5
I like your use of crossing things out. I intend to incorporate more of that in my postings. It looks kind of arty. They look like etchings.
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 7, 2019 14:26:36 GMT -5
I keep forgetting that Proboards reads square brackets in a manner incompatible with MLA style.
And you don't have to come upstairs to see my etchings--they're all right here on-line.
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Post by Chesapeake on Oct 7, 2019 18:30:35 GMT -5
I don't have the tact of some others on this forum, so I'll just say it like this: When a kid goes around the playground poking other kids in the nose, and finally somebody pokes him back, he (or she) can't very well run to Mom and complain the other kids are being mean to him (or her).
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 7, 2019 18:35:34 GMT -5
I don't have the tact of some others on this forum, so I'll just say it like this: When a kid goes around the playground poking other kids in the nose, and finally somebody pokes him back, he (or she) can't very well run to Mom and complain the other kids are being mean to him (or her). So, what did your Mom say she'd do about Trump poking you back?
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Post by factorychef on Oct 7, 2019 18:42:26 GMT -5
Kick him in the balls and cut off he wonderful hairdo.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 7, 2019 19:31:47 GMT -5
I haven't found a good one yet, but I've been browsing youtube for whistling duets.
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