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Post by casualplayerpaul on Oct 30, 2019 15:48:52 GMT -5
BTW- US deputy secretary of state Sullivan, on live television, just acknowledged Giuliani was trying to take down the US ambassador in Ukraine.
He also says a White House official circulated a dossier of misinformation in aid of that smear campaign.
Damn. My Deep State boys are good!
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Post by millring on Oct 30, 2019 15:49:20 GMT -5
You won't find it in the Washington Post.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 30, 2019 15:50:01 GMT -5
So why didn't they prosecute on that. I mean if it's such a slam dunk that even you can see it, drop the hammer. They're either cowards or liars. My money's on both. Hell, Schiff has been bragging that he's got mystery proof for 3 years. Put it down and let's get on with it. I won't hold my breath. Happy to answer your question, even though you continue to ignore mine. Not every prosecutor attempts to indict on every crime committed. Pelosi was cautious and repeatedly said she would not move on articles of impeachment unless they would pass the Senate. With the Ukraine shenanigans and Trump admitting he asked for foreign governments to investigate his political opponents, she decided the time was right. What on earth makes anyone think that any of this can get past 2/3 of the Senate?
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Oct 30, 2019 16:04:52 GMT -5
Happy to answer your question, even though you continue to ignore mine. Not every prosecutor attempts to indict on every crime committed. Pelosi was cautious and repeatedly said she would not move on articles of impeachment unless they would pass the Senate. With the Ukraine shenanigans and Trump admitting he asked for foreign governments to investigate his political opponents, she decided the time was right. What on earth makes anyone think that any of this can get past 2/3 of the Senate? Good question. It likely won't. But the attention of the country will be focused on a fairly simple set of questions, "Is it OK for a POTUS to ask for foreign governments to dig up dirt on his political opponents?" being one of them. I look forward to every Senator who says that is OK to defend that vote next time they run for reelection. We will see how this plays out.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 30, 2019 16:21:18 GMT -5
Melania Trump and Karen Pence visited a school in S.C. today where my niece is the school nurse so she posted the video. The ladies sat with the kids and talked to them. The kids looked happy enough but while the video played the outside comments were on the right hand side of the screen. The TDS in S.C. is pretty bad. They called Melania every nasty name in the book. It's a sad time in this country but it's not her, or Donald's for that matter's fault. The media has made this happen, supporting the Democrat POV. It's all pure hate with no actual reason given. All he did was beat a POS like Hillary Clinton.
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Post by millring on Oct 30, 2019 16:24:29 GMT -5
What on earth makes anyone think that any of this can get past 2/3 of the Senate? I think they will. I still maintain that the Republicans hate Trump at least as much as the Democrats do. He came in and decimated their party and is forcing them to fight for things they don't believe in. They'd love to be rid of him. The Republicans would love to return to minority status forever. They never liked the idea of leading.
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Post by lar on Oct 30, 2019 16:37:42 GMT -5
What on earth makes anyone think that any of this can get past 2/3 of the Senate? Good question. It likely won't. But the attention of the country will be focused on a fairly simple set of questions, "Is it OK for a POTUS to ask for foreign governments to dig up dirt on his political opponents?" being one of them. I look forward to every Senator who says that is OK to defend that vote next time they run for reelection. We will see how this plays out. According to the polls, roughly half of the country is for impeaching and removing the president. That would leave about half the country not in favor of either or both. Give or take. Given that the country is pretty much split on impeachment it's not certain that the Republicans in the senate who vote against conviction are in any more danger come re-election time than the Democrats who will vote for conviction. Granted there are currently more Republicans in the senate so it stands to reason that they have the most seats to lose. I don't know who is up for re-election and who isn't so I'm speaking in very broad terms here. If I were advising the Democrats I would have cautioned against starting impeachment in the first place. Given Trump's popularity numbers the party has plenty of reason to believe that Trump is vulnerable in 2020. But after a nasty impeachment fight in which, in my opinion, nobody is going to come out looking good there might be some blow back on the part of voters who aren't happy that the Democrats started a fight they couldn't win. The wishy-washy way that the Democrats have handled the impeachment resolution and closed door hearings isn't doing much to make them look as if they know what they are doing. I think impeachment was a big gamble.
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Post by millring on Oct 30, 2019 16:59:54 GMT -5
Given Trump's popularity numbers the party has plenty of reason to believe that Trump is vulnerable in 2020. His Gallup approval ratings are virtually identical to Obama's at the same point in 2011.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Oct 30, 2019 17:04:28 GMT -5
Good question. It likely won't. But the attention of the country will be focused on a fairly simple set of questions, "Is it OK for a POTUS to ask for foreign governments to dig up dirt on his political opponents?" being one of them. I look forward to every Senator who says that is OK to defend that vote next time they run for reelection. We will see how this plays out. According to the polls, roughly half of the country is for impeaching and removing the president. That would leave about half the country not in favor of either or both. Give or take. Given that the country is pretty much split on impeachment it's not certain that the Republicans in the senate who vote against conviction are in any more danger come re-election time than the Democrats who will vote for conviction. Granted there are currently more Republicans in the senate so it stands to reason that they have the most seats to lose. I don't know who is up for re-election and who isn't so I'm speaking in very broad terms here. If I were advising the Democrats I would have cautioned against starting impeachment in the first place. Given Trump's popularity numbers the party has plenty of reason to believe that Trump is vulnerable in 2020. But after a nasty impeachment fight in which, in my opinion, nobody is going to come out looking good there might be some blow back on the part of voters who aren't happy that the Democrats started a fight they couldn't win. The wishy-washy way that the Democrats have handled the impeachment resolution and closed door hearings isn't doing much to make them look as if they know what they are doing. I think impeachment was a big gamble. I care less about the politics than I do about the fact that a reckless President with little or no regard for the law be held accountable. But, relative to the politics, I do think putting a microscope on his shenanigans will not work out well politically for him or for his affiliates. He goes into an election with the scarlet I. People say it didn’t work out that well for the GOP back in 1999/2000. Really? How was it then that George W. Bush became president that in 2001?
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Post by millring on Oct 30, 2019 17:15:04 GMT -5
Gore was a really bad candidate. He was good enough to win the popular vote, but that's a slam dunk for any Democrat. Otherwise, he was a horrible candidate.
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Post by david on Oct 30, 2019 17:17:48 GMT -5
I hope that House and Senate Republicans start distancing themselves from Trump. Sooner is better.
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Post by millring on Oct 30, 2019 17:24:14 GMT -5
I hope that House and Senate Republicans start distancing themselves from Trump. Sooner is better. I don't. I still want a (at least) two party system.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 30, 2019 17:38:34 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for the IG's report on the Obama and deep state shenanigans. Oh, and thanks for using shenanigans so I didn't have to look it up to spell it.
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Post by david on Oct 30, 2019 17:43:59 GMT -5
There is already evidence adequate to impeach him in my mind. I want Republicans to stick to their values rather than support Trump simply because he won the election. I will respect those who stand up to him rather than roll over for him.
Republicans in general, and his competing primary candidates in the last election in particular, had him pegged properly. Their criticism died (except for Romney and McCain) when he was elected. Continued support for him will further degrade the party. I think he is an albatross around the party's neck.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 30, 2019 17:45:45 GMT -5
There is already evidence adequate to impeach him in my mind. I want Republicans to stick to their values rather than support Trump simply because he won the election. I will respect those who stand up to him rather than roll over for him. Republicans in general, and his competing primary candidates in the last election in particular, had him pegged properly. Their criticism died (except for Romney and McCain) when he was elected. Continued support for him will further degrade the party. I think he is an albatross around the party's neck. What adequate evidence are you referring to?
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Post by david on Oct 30, 2019 17:49:36 GMT -5
Bruce, I don't think anything I could say would be sufficient for you.
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Post by Chesapeake on Oct 30, 2019 18:00:08 GMT -5
Melania Trump and Karen Pence visited a school in S.C. today where my niece is the school nurse so she posted the video. The ladies sat with the kids and talked to them. The kids looked happy enough but while the video played the outside comments were on the right hand side of the screen. The TDS in S.C. is pretty bad. They called Melania every nasty name in the book. It's a sad time in this country but it's not her, or Donald's for that matter's fault. The media has made this happen, supporting the Democrat POV. It's all pure hate with no actual reason given. All he did was beat a POS like Hillary Clinton. Guess you missed all the 2016 Trump hate fests. I mean, rallies.
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Post by Chesapeake on Oct 30, 2019 18:13:11 GMT -5
I hope I'm missing something here. Are you seriously blaming the media for the coarseness that had taken root in American political discourse during the Age of Trump?
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 30, 2019 18:17:04 GMT -5
Melania Trump and Karen Pence visited a school in S.C. today where my niece is the school nurse so she posted the video. The ladies sat with the kids and talked to them. The kids looked happy enough but while the video played the outside comments were on the right hand side of the screen. The TDS in S.C. is pretty bad. They called Melania every nasty name in the book. It's a sad time in this country but it's not her, or Donald's for that matter's fault. The media has made this happen, supporting the Democrat POV. It's all pure hate with no actual reason given. All he did was beat a POS like Hillary Clinton. Guess you missed all the 2016 Trump hate fests. I mean, rallies. Guess so. I didn't think it started until the returns came in election night. We now know that the Russian thing and Ukraine thing, same thing, started back in 2015 and the original copy of the suspect dossier didn't have the names and places in it, just blanks to fill in depending on which candidate you wanted to smear which wouldn't be known until after the primaries. The never Trumpers were in power and he was going to make them work for a living so they didn't like him and of course, he was going to overturn 8 years worth of fundamentally changing the country so the Democrats didn't like him but the excessive hatred of him I didn't see until the day after the election and beating up on his wife as a pornstar and whore is over the line IMHO.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 30, 2019 18:21:06 GMT -5
I hope I'm missing something here. Are you seriously blaming the media for the coarseness that had taken root in American political discourse during the Age of Trump? From where I sit, sure. But you probably knew that already.
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