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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 16:30:01 GMT -5
Post by millring on Mar 27, 2015 16:30:01 GMT -5
I just went to the Kaiser Permanente website, they will sell me a plan without going through Obama care or any state run deal. It's probabaly an aporoved plan, but at least in OR, you don't have to go through the Goverment site. Unless you are 65 or older, then, you will need to sign up for Medicare. Unless, like me, you have insurance through your work group. I turn 65 tomorrow, but I'm not signed up for Medicare because my employer doesn't seem to care and I'm covered. Mike We seem to be conflating two threads here. To the extent that all insurance has to comply with the ACA, all insurance is "through" the ACA. But I think the confusion of "through" got conflated into this discussion because the original ridicule was that stupid ol' Ted Cruz was accessing "Obamacare". And in that case, he does, indeed, have to go through an ACA exchange to get health insurance because he is a congressman and as such, is required by law to do so. So, stupid ol' Ted has to because the law requires him to. Everyone else does -- in effect -- because all insurance has to be compliant with the new law.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 16:31:46 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on Mar 27, 2015 16:31:46 GMT -5
It is if the law prevents you from buying the type of insurance you'd like. How would you know what you like if democrats didn't tell you? You're still buying that "land of the free" shit?
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 16:38:13 GMT -5
Post by Fingerplucked on Mar 27, 2015 16:38:13 GMT -5
I just went to the Kaiser Permanente website, they will sell me a plan without going through Obama care or any state run deal. It's probabaly an aporoved plan, but at least in OR, you don't have to go through the Goverment site. Unless you are 65 or older, then, you will need to sign up for Medicare. Unless, like me, you have insurance through your work group. I turn 65 tomorrow, but I'm not signed up for Medicare because my employer doesn't seem to care and I'm covered. Mike We seem to be conflating two threads here. To the extent that all insurance has to comply with the ACA, all insurance is "through" the ACA. But I think the confusion of "through" got conflated into this discussion because the original ridicule was that stupid ol' Ted Cruz was accessing "Obamacare". And in that case, he does, indeed, have to go through an ACA exchange to get health insurance because he is a congressman and as such, is required by law to do so. So, stupid ol' Ted has to because the law requires him to. Everyone else does -- in effect -- because all insurance has to be compliant with the new law. I think you have a good point. Still, "Stupid 'Ol Ted" should have been able to see this coming. So far, Ted and Hillary are looking like a of couple old, sluggish fighters who have no business climbing back into the ring. If the two of them don't get their feet under them pretty quickly, they're going to be KO'd as soon as the real fight begins. Except Hillary. Without any Democratic primary challengers, she won't get bloodied until the general election.
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Post by aquaduct on Mar 27, 2015 16:52:36 GMT -5
I think you have a good point. Still, "Stupid 'Ol Ted" should have been able to see this coming. There was nothing to see coming. It's the law and he followed it. Unlike Hillary who seems completely unable to recognize anything ethically or morally proper.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:01:06 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Mar 27, 2015 17:01:06 GMT -5
If "it" is "ridicule", then of course Cruz "saw it coming". He understands fully that he couldn't cure cancer without suffering the furious wrath of the Left Wing Ridicule Machine.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:02:56 GMT -5
Post by millring on Mar 27, 2015 17:02:56 GMT -5
If "it" is "ridicule", then of course Cruz "saw it coming". He understands fully that he couldn't cure cancer without suffering the furious wrath of the Left Wing Ridicule Machine. What ARE you talking about?!
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:05:03 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Mar 27, 2015 17:05:03 GMT -5
Wow! Ted's HAWT!!!
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:09:21 GMT -5
Post by Fingerplucked on Mar 27, 2015 17:09:21 GMT -5
I think you have a good point. Still, "Stupid 'Ol Ted" should have been able to see this coming. So far, Ted and Hillary are looking like a of couple old, sluggish fighters who have no business climbing back into the ring. If the two of them don't get their feet under them pretty quickly, they're going to be KO'd as soon as the real fight begins. Except Hillary. Without any Democratic primary challengers, she won't get bloodied until the general election. See what coming? He's not complaining. He's merely complying. It's the press and people like you who are trying to make an issue of it -- a confused issue to be sure, because y'all can't decide HOW to ridicule. You know in your gut that's HOW it's supposed to be done (ridicule), but you can't figure out whether to ridicule him because he's just like everyone else and now finds he NEEDS the ACA (he doesn't. That's merely a self-fulfilled issue created by the act itself. If the law didn't exist he wouldn't need it. He could always have afforded it with or without the act). Since that ridicule doesn't work, we move on to the "hypocrisy" ridicule. But he's merely complying with the law. OF COURSE he wouldn't have enacted it. It's like blaming him for being against a 55MPH speed limit and arguing tooth and nail for the speed limit to stay at 70MPH. If he lost the speed limit argument and the law was changed to 55MPH, he's not a hypocrite for driving 55. :: nods :: See what coming? The political optics. The obvious. This is the guy who led the charge to shut down the government over Obamacare. This is the guy who cost the country $26 billion with his antics. He was ready to set the world on fire as he tried to bend the Senate, both Republicans and Democrats, and the entire government to his will over Obamacare. And now he just signs up for Obamacare because it's the law? Hah. And no. Not if he believed in his principles. If repealing or defunding Obamacare was so important before when WE were footing the bill, he should be willing to make sacrifices himself. If his only choice is Obamacare or no insurance plus a $50? fine, he should go without insurance. I'm not trying to ridicule him, I just think he's a hypocrite. And if he were a hypocrite of the milder variety, if he had opposed Obamacare through appropriate senatorial procedures, I don't think any of this would be an issue.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:30:20 GMT -5
Post by millring on Mar 27, 2015 17:30:20 GMT -5
In which alternate universe?
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:33:25 GMT -5
Post by brucemacneill on Mar 27, 2015 17:33:25 GMT -5
Cruz is talking about a flat tax which is simple and doesn't need a big bureaucracy to collect it. Yeah, I get that now. So under Cruz not only would I not get to quit paying taxes, but I'd get a regressive tax where the poor pay more, I may or may not pay more (probably less in the initial stages to get acceptance, and then afterward adjusted upward), and the rich pay less? It sounds like a Republican wet dream. Maybe I should run for President. I have nothing against the IRS, and I wouldn't consider stoking anger against government as part of my stategy, but if I was to run and I abolished the IRS, my plan would work out a lot better. There would be a reason for eliminating the IRS. There would be a payoff. Maybe I should call it Flat NoTax. You're a liberal. You should be happy to give your fair share to those who don't have as much as you have coming in each year. INcidentally, I don't know how a flat tax would work either and I suspect it wouldn't be as simple as its supporters make out.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:33:56 GMT -5
Post by millring on Mar 27, 2015 17:33:56 GMT -5
Not if he believed in his principles. This is the major problem in communicating or discussing this. You don't understand his principles. You don't even know what his principles are well enough to articulate them, much less define them for him.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:45:53 GMT -5
Post by Russell Letson on Mar 27, 2015 17:45:53 GMT -5
If "it" is "ridicule", then of course Cruz "saw it coming". He understands fully that he couldn't cure cancer without suffering the furious wrath of the Left Wing Ridicule Machine. Dear Wounded Puppies: Read just about any comment thread on any political site friendly to the right (or, for that matter, any lightly- or unmoderated news site) and tell me that the conservative side of our public discussion space is ruled by civility and sweet reason. The right is as much a helpless victim of nasty old lefty mockery as Christianity is under attack in our polity. (signed) Long of Wind, Thick of Skin
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 17:49:28 GMT -5
Post by millring on Mar 27, 2015 17:49:28 GMT -5
Yes, and isn't a fine, stinking kettle of fish? (and might I observe that we don't need to visit a different site. We find the ridicule right here).
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 18:03:03 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on Mar 27, 2015 18:03:03 GMT -5
Nothing wounded about it. That's certainly always been the way the game is played here. Of course this place is pretty thoroughly leftist.
Of course it's always a little baffling when folks bitch about my attitude. Just giving as good as I get.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 18:10:04 GMT -5
Post by Russell Letson on Mar 27, 2015 18:10:04 GMT -5
On our worst day we couldn't even get into the qualifying heats of the competitive trash-talking I keep finding when I go to survey the opinions on the Other Side. And I remember the days of "kill the pigs!" so it's not like I'm unaware of the kinds of excesses that can come from the cheap seats on my side of the aisle. Sometimes I think that the worse crazies of the Vietnam era have turned their shirts inside out and joined their former enemies just to keep the rage going.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 18:15:24 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on Mar 27, 2015 18:15:24 GMT -5
See what coming? He's not complaining. He's merely complying. It's the press and people like you who are trying to make an issue of it -- a confused issue to be sure, because y'all can't decide HOW to ridicule. You know in your gut that's HOW it's supposed to be done (ridicule), but you can't figure out whether to ridicule him because he's just like everyone else and now finds he NEEDS the ACA (he doesn't. That's merely a self-fulfilled issue created by the act itself. If the law didn't exist he wouldn't need it. He could always have afforded it with or without the act). Since that ridicule doesn't work, we move on to the "hypocrisy" ridicule. But he's merely complying with the law. OF COURSE he wouldn't have enacted it. It's like blaming him for being against a 55MPH speed limit and arguing tooth and nail for the speed limit to stay at 70MPH. If he lost the speed limit argument and the law was changed to 55MPH, he's not a hypocrite for driving 55. :: nods :: See what coming? The political optics. The obvious. This is the guy who led the charge to shut down the government over Obamacare. This is the guy who cost the country $26 billion with his antics. He was ready to set the world on fire as he tried to bend the Senate, both Republicans and Democrats, and the entire government to his will over Obamacare. And now he just signs up for Obamacare because it's the law? Hah. And no. Not if he believed in his principles. If repealing or defunding Obamacare was so important before when WE were footing the bill, he should be willing to make sacrifices himself. If his only choice is Obamacare or no insurance plus a $50? fine, he should go without insurance. I'm not trying to ridicule him, I just think he's a hypocrite. And if he were a hypocrite of the milder variety, if he had opposed Obamacare through appropriate senatorial procedures, I don't think any of this would be an issue. How's that $26 billion bullshit work? The shutdown lasted what, 3 weeks? So in round numbers that's something like $6.5 billion a week? In an economy that runs about $270 billion a week? What's that, a little better than 2 percent? Was that just the salaries of the feds that were furloughed? The one's who got all that back pay once the shutdown was over? My wife is critical so she had to work the shutdown. Most of our friends got a 3 week vacation to refinish thier basements or some such. You're going to have to get better propaganda sources. Preferably ones that can add.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 18:20:17 GMT -5
Post by millring on Mar 27, 2015 18:20:17 GMT -5
On our worst day we couldn't even get into the qualifying heats of the competitive trash-talking I keep finding when I go to survey the opinions on the Other Side. And I remember the days of "kill the pigs!" so it's not like I'm unaware of the kinds of excesses that can come from the cheap seats on my side of the aisle. Sometimes I think that the worse crazies of the Vietnam era have turned their shirts inside out and joined their former enemies just to keep the rage going. I believe you're just mistaking style for substance. The left has the most effective ridiculers and they're not hidden in the comments section where you'd have to be hunting to purposely be offended. Stewart, Oliver, Colbert et al. There's never been more effective ridicule in my lifetime. Additionally, if my facebook page is any indicator, the vitriol never left the left. No, the shirts are not inside out. Nothing's changed there.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 18:31:32 GMT -5
Post by billhammond on Mar 27, 2015 18:31:32 GMT -5
All of whom I find very FUNNY guys. How come, I wonder, doesn't Fox, with all its ratings power, put on some FUNNY shows that satirize the left?
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 18:44:08 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on Mar 27, 2015 18:44:08 GMT -5
All of whom I find very FUNNY guys. How come, I wonder, doesn't Fox, with all its ratings power, put on some FUNNY shows that satirize the left? Fox is an entire network that satarizes the left. And some of those guys are hilarious. Of course one would have to surrender the belief that the left is inherently right in all things to be able to get the running joke that they've become, but still there's some really funny stuff out there. Start with Dennis Miller.
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Cruzin'
Mar 27, 2015 18:44:14 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Mar 27, 2015 18:44:14 GMT -5
I believe you're just mistaking style for substance. The left has the most effective ridiculers and they're not hidden in the comments section where you'd have to be hunting to purposely be offended. Stewart, Oliver, Colbert et al. There's never been more effective ridicule in my lifetime. Additionally, if my facebook page is any indicator, the vitriol never left the left. No, the shirts are not inside out. Nothing's changed there. True enough, but there's a bit more to it than that. The following was written by Jay Nordlinger, describing his experience attending a concert last night. I defy anyone to find a single example of such pure, joyous, gleeful, self-affirming, socially-affirmed hatred coming from the right in an equivalent non-political, social context. This was a tony, New York audience. The sort of people who look down their noses at Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin. This is how they behave. The rednecks at a NASCAR race have more class:
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