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Post by patrick on Jan 5, 2018 20:21:26 GMT -5
In late 2001 I bought a 2002 Honda Odyssey for about $32,000. Most expensive car I ever bought.
Over the years I added a Sirius satellite radio I stuck into a drawer in the dashboard. I found a clever way to mount a Garmin GPS on the dash. Life was good.
Now, I drive a 2012 Toyota Highlander (that's the correct way to spell it) that I inherited with a built in GPS and built in sat radio with a freakin' huge touch screen in the dash.
The data for the GPS is on a DVD that gets inserted into a clever slot behind the screen, which folds out of the way. To update it, I need to go to my Toyota dealer, turn the keys over to a high school graduate, who then pushes a button to cause the screen to fold out of the way, eject the old DVD, insert the new DVD, and reboot. Then he will hand me a bill for $200. Mind you, the Garmin I put into my Honda cost $200 to buy new, is easily replaced as technology improves, and is updated for free by plugging it into my laptop and logging on to Garmin. I used to be able to navigate my old sat radio by touch, now I have to navigate a big video screen through multiple layers.
Mind you, I will be keeping the Highlander. Its 100,000 miles and 10 years younger than the Odyssey, but I have my Garmin mounted on the vent next to the big built in nav system I don't use.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Jan 5, 2018 20:35:38 GMT -5
You can save two hundred bucks by using your smart phone instead of updating your garmin.
Mike
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Post by TKennedy on Jan 5, 2018 20:44:07 GMT -5
The guy’s a whiner. I have a carpeted 1998 Chevy cargo van I’ll sell him for $800. Runs like a top and hardly any rust. Manual windows in case you go through the ice.
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Post by drlj on Jan 5, 2018 20:49:25 GMT -5
You can save two hundred bucks by using your smart phone instead of updating your garmin. Mike Sometimes I use both just to see if the GPS ladies will get pissed at each other and get into a fight. They often disagree and one wants me to go down one street while the other sends me another way. I listened to the smart phone lady while heading to French Lick and she sent me via a one lane, hilly, full of curves, able to hear the banjo music from Deliverance route that scared the holy bejesus out of both of us--Barb and me, not the GPS ladies. After that, I turned on the Garmin and I think I noted a certain smugness in her voice as she took over and saved us from the backwoods loonies and got us into town safely. Since then, I have had more respect for the Garmin GPS lady and I use the smart phone lady sparingly. I think the smart phone GPS lady got over confident and was trying to show the Garmin GPS lady that she could take us by the most interesting route. I don't mind interesting but putting us into a Stephen King sort of setting was a bit much.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jan 5, 2018 20:52:18 GMT -5
What is a garmin?
But anyway, one part of technology the guy isn't mentioning is the simple things that used to be operated in a non-electronic way that could be operated that way again without a huge loss of the feeling of luxury. Things like rolling windows up and down by hand, adjusting the seats using mechanical devices and locking and unlocking a car with a key. Things that aren't a big deal, really, and things that don't even matter once we're driving down the road.
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Post by Doug on Jan 5, 2018 21:00:51 GMT -5
The Escape doesn't have gps but it does have the wart on the roof that I wish wasn't there. If I wanted pay radio I'd get it, I don't want it built in the car. And I did figure out how to make the radio read memory sticks. I did fine when the a car had an AM radio and then I got a car and put in an 8-track. Had a car with a built in cassette player and it ate a tape and it never came out. The fake repro radio (looks like a Sapphire or a Blankunput ) in the VW is AM/FM but the bezel is plastic not pot metal like the rest of the trim. I think all electronics in a car are obsolete by the time the car leaves the lot.
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Post by drlj on Jan 5, 2018 21:43:39 GMT -5
What is a garmin? But anyway, one part of technology the guy isn't mentioning is the simple things that used to be operated in a non-electronic way that could be operated that way again without a huge loss of the feeling of luxury. Things like rolling windows up and down by hand, adjusting the seats using mechanical devices and locking and unlocking a car with a key. Things that aren't a big deal, really, and things that don't even matter once we're driving down the road. Garmin is a GPS maker. Roll my own windows down? Surely you jest. Next you will want my heated seats and my keyless ignition.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jan 5, 2018 21:53:10 GMT -5
At least I'm not moving you brights option to a button on the floor.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Jan 5, 2018 22:14:07 GMT -5
VI, don’t listen to LJ. Garmin is a small, ferret like rodent that has a unerring sense of direction. Difficult to tame, but once you bond with it you will never get lost. Failure to bond results in narcicism, excessive tweeting of patently untrue alternate facts, and bad orange comb overs.
Mike
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Post by Doug on Jan 5, 2018 22:42:52 GMT -5
What is a garmin? But anyway, one part of technology the guy isn't mentioning is the simple things that used to be operated in a non-electronic way that could be operated that way again without a huge loss of the feeling of luxury. Things like rolling windows up and down by hand, adjusting the seats using mechanical devices and locking and unlocking a car with a key. Things that aren't a big deal, really, and things that don't even matter once we're driving down the road. You need a '67 VW.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jan 5, 2018 22:44:07 GMT -5
I've had a 63, 67, and a 73. The 73 being a microbus.
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Post by John B on Jan 5, 2018 23:06:24 GMT -5
I listened to the smart phone lady while heading to French Lick and she sent me via a one lane, hilly, full of curves, able to hear the banjo music from Deliverance route that scared the holy bejesus out of both of us--Barb and me, not the GPS ladies. After that, I turned on the Garmin and I think I noted a certain smugness in her voice as she took over and saved us from the backwoods loonies and got us into town safely. Since then, I have had more respect for the Garmin GPS lady and I use the smart phone lady sparingly. I think the smart phone GPS lady got over confident and was trying to show the Garmin GPS lady that she could take us by the most interesting route. I don't mind interesting but putting us into a Stephen King sort of setting was a bit much. I believe my phone took me on that very same road if it was near French Lick. On the way back I discovered the very nice state highway my phone had been avoiding - apparently Google Maps decided the county roads would be one minute faster (definitely not, the way I drive).
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Post by jdd2 on Jan 5, 2018 23:26:10 GMT -5
... Manual windows in case you go through the ice. I'd never considered that angle...!
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Post by Doug on Jan 5, 2018 23:31:20 GMT -5
I've had a 63, 67, and a 73. The 73 being a microbus. See if you still had them you could sell them for enough money to retire.
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Post by david on Jan 5, 2018 23:31:29 GMT -5
I agree that the guy is a whiner as to point #1. And he fails to mention is that cars now routinely run for 200,000 plus miles, versus 1960 - 2000 era cars that were through at 90,000. (Yes, I know that many of you, especially those in flat areas with no few stop lights, got 8 million miles on your 72 Vega, but you are exceptional!). So, if you can afford to buy a new car, it is a much longer term investment than it was 20 or more years ago.
He also fails to consider that he is paying for a hell of a lot more stuff than his parents' car might have had. Here are some of the advances in the standard 2018 Honda EX CRV (standard MSRP $28,500) that were not on my top of the line 1999 Honda EX CRV:
Heated seats, better crash worthiness, back up camera, keyless ignition, blind spot monitoring, emergency braking, lane departure warning, heated mirrors, better acceleration, smoother ride, better cornering, better braking, quieter ride, softer touch material, fewer motor oil changes, fewer timing belt changes, fewer auto transmission oil changes, fewer spark plug changes, tire pressure monitoring, newer is larger, more energy efficient (new is 29 combined mpg, old was combined 21 mpg), sunroof, dual zone interior temp control, side mounted airbags, auto off headlights, dusk sensing headlights, fog lights, audio control on steering wheel, 4-wheel ABS, more seat adjustments, lumbar adjustment, one touch power windows, hands free entry, 160 watt stereo with USB input, etc.
As to point #2, I agree that expensive repair of necessary electronic crap, especially the touch screen that controls essentials like lights and heat, is shortsighted. Essential controls need to be analog. As to navigation, some systems now allow you to mirror your phone on your touch screen. Others, via Apple Play or Android Auto, will allow you to have your phone control certain aspects of your screen, such as Google Maps, Audible, Spotify, Pandora, etc. That ability to plug your phone into the nav system will greatly extend the useful life of a navigation unit (as opposed to those that don't allow the phone to override the existing nav system).
I added a Garmin navigation unit to my 2008 4Runner so that I can have navigation even when I have no phone connection (a frequent occurrence when I am hunting in eastern Oregon). It also has a back up camera. I love, love, love having a back up camera!!!
You can get a stand alone back up camera and an accompanying rearview mirror from Bestbuy installed on your car for around $200. It is a great safety feature and especially handy when trying to hook up to a trailer or parking in tight spots.
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Post by david on Jan 5, 2018 23:32:27 GMT -5
Oops!
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Post by billhammond on Jan 5, 2018 23:48:01 GMT -5
The Escape doesn't have gps but it does have the wart on the roof that I wish wasn't there. Isn't the roof wart for the backup camera? The more I thought about this guy's bleats, the more I dismissed them as anything near universal. There is not a single tech feature on my "new" car that I would ever worry about "updating," cuz like I said, all the essential controls also have manual switches and knobs, and those are what I use. I don't have nav, I use (gasp) Topo maps and research my potential routes via Google terrain maps before I go anywhere. I can pretty much guarantee you that in all the years we have had Idiotjams, I've taken more routes than anyone else (Todd helps in recommendations). I like being able to veer off on a promising looking road when I pass it, and just use the compass embedded in my rearview mirror to ensure that I am heading in generally the right direction. I also am not a big fan of all the doodads that warn you of lane deviation, adaptive cruise control, emergency braking, etc., as it is my belief that they promote inattentive driving. I DO appreciate ABS and traction control, as they can brake you and prevent a spin better than you can in many cases. Just last week, I was accelerating down an on-ramp on my morning commute, and that is where black ice tends to develop from car exhaust condensation in serious subzero temps -- and just as I was merging into the new lane the tail end of the car started to slip to the left, but then immediately jerked back into straight-ahead mode. That stuff amazes me, that there can be reliable onboard systems that even in horrible weather like that when it's most likely to be needed, can instantaneously sense a crisis in the making and in a split-second apply the appropriate brake to the appropriate wheel and straighten you out.
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Post by david on Jan 6, 2018 0:14:56 GMT -5
Bill, It is an interesting question as to whether emergency braking would make me less attentive. I know that it would likely have prevented me from rearending a car last year when I looked in the back to see that my dog was chewing up my Christmas Wreath. I rear-ended a car at about 5 mph. Very expensive.
But reliance on such a system might make me less attentive on my daily drives.
As to nav systems, I now consider them indispensable. If I take a detour, they reroute my destination. For flatlanders who live in an area with a grid system it might not be so important. But where roads are laid out with no rhyme or reason, navigation is very nice.
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Post by billhammond on Jan 6, 2018 0:38:05 GMT -5
Bill, It is an interesting question as to whether emergency braking would make me less attentive. I know that it would likely have prevented me from rearending a car last year when I looked in the back to see that my dog was chewing up my Christmas Wreath. I rear-ended a car at about 5 mph. Very expensive. But reliance on such a system might make me less attentive on my daily drives. As to nav systems, I now consider them indispensable. If I take a detour, they reroute my destination. For flatlanders who live in an area with a grid system it might not be so important. But where roads are laid out with no rhyme or reason, navigation is very nice. You're talking to a guy who never even answers or makes a phone call while driving -- unless it's a freeway where there is no car in sight front or back, and even then, that call had better be damned important. Mostly, I let it ring, let it go to voice-mail and check it at the next pit stop. I like the tactile, two-hands-on-the-wheel, maximum following distance, basic driving experience. That said, I would not have MINDED having nav in my latest car, although with those systems, there are often charges and updates needed. Fortunately, the Upper Midwest lends itself to exploratory driving. And I would have liked a backup camera, although again, I think that acute driver attention can accomplish a great deal. I don't think I have ever driven over anything or anyone while backing up.
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Post by david on Jan 6, 2018 0:49:31 GMT -5
And I would have liked a backup camera, although again, I think that acute driver attention can accomplish a great deal. I don't think I have ever driven over anything or anyone while backing up. My friend Pepe' Lepugh has some other views of your backing up awareness. Truly, I frequently go to a dog park. Dogs go through the parking lot and if it were not for my back up camera, I might have hit one. Similarly, kids shorter than your trunk or rear view, are impossible to see if they are directly behind your car. Yes, you can be hyper aware, but "out of sight, out of mind" can come in to play when backing up.
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