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Post by millring on Jan 10, 2019 5:40:04 GMT -5
I'm trying to work up some angst about this government shut down and....wait....wait....oop....never mind it was just a gas bubble. Julie London said it all in the other thread.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jan 10, 2019 6:17:03 GMT -5
I wonder why Democrats still think Republicans had control of all 3 branches of government when they never did. It takes 60 votes to get a bill passed in the Senate and the Republicans never had 60 votes. More or less like republicans tried to stop Obama when the Democrats had the legislature but not 60 senators, the Demod=crats can stoop anything the Republicans propose now, and they have vowed to resist Trump.
I think walls work. Well, they work where there are walls. The alternative is shoot to kill or admit you have no country so fuck it.
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Post by factorychef on Jan 10, 2019 6:23:16 GMT -5
Fake News!!
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Post by brucemacneill on Jan 10, 2019 8:48:26 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2019 9:12:12 GMT -5
Been reading Patrick's posts about the shutdown. Listing agencies and all the ill effects of closing them down that the GIN in their self-absorbed way envision are going to happen now. And it's got me thinking- living here and all.
FBI and the other Federal law enforcement agencies. Get ready, the crooks are on their way to steal your shit and rape your women. Except, if I need a cop, I make a phone call and up to a dozen local boys and girls show up with guns from my town and take care of it. If it's a particularly big issue, my two neighbor State troopers might come by but they're usually concerned with traffic on the local freeways. The only time the FBI shows up anywhere near my town is when the Presidential motorcade passes on the freeway or to take notes when someone finds a bomb in a field (which has happened).
Department of Agriculture. My God all these greedy farmer types are going to run out and let their tools get dirty and piss in the irrigation systems and poison us all. Except even the stupidest (not to imply I've actually run into any, but I'm covering the statistical spread) farmer knows that deliberately killing your customers is not in their best business interest.
Same with FAA (Oh no! Suddenly the airlines will hire out of work janitors to fly the planes to save money!), FHA (Oh no! now people will go out and build shitty roads!), FMCSA (Oh my God! Every trucker in the country will now turn off their brake systems!), and all the rest of the alphabet soup of the Federal system that aims to make sure that no matter how much incentive you naturally have to live or do the right thing, they'll hold you to it to make sure it's done right. Dammit!
Just a curious thought I had this morning driving in to work with the normal traffic of a 2.9% unemployment rate and not even a mention of the shutdown on the local radio news.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Jan 10, 2019 9:33:30 GMT -5
Peter, your myopia concerning the shutdown is astounding. Concerning the adept of AG and the CDC.
A excerpt from a statistical page from the CDC on food born illness, hospitalization S, and deaths.
"Food-Related Illness and Death
Thumbnail of Estimated frequency of foodborne illness in the United States. Figure. Estimated frequency of foodborne illness in the United States.
We summed illness attributable to foodborne gastroenteritis caused by known and unknown pathogens, yielding an estimate of 76 million illnesses, 318,574 hospitalizations, and 4,316 deaths. Adding to these figures the nongastrointestinal illness caused by Listeria, Toxoplasma, and hepatitis A virus, we arrived at a final national estimate of 76 million illnesses, 323,914 hospitalizations, and 5,194 deaths each year (Figure)."
How many Americans died last year because of illegals?
As far as the the Truckers go, there are all sorts of individuals and companies moving freight. Many are responsible professionals, but some are not.
Mike
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Post by fauxmaha on Jan 10, 2019 9:45:12 GMT -5
Building the wall is immoral. But really, let's quit pretending: The concept of citizenship itself is immoral. It is nothing but a vestige of the white, European, patriarchal system used historically to oppress POC.
Why should government benefits be limited to the artificial, socially constructed category of person arbitrarily called "citizens"? There is no defense of such limitations. They are based only on racism and bigotry. Attempts to whitesplain (or worse, whitemansplain) such limits are inherently racist.
And why are government benefits limited by location? What moral justification is there to insist that someone make the dangerous amd harrowing journey to the US in order to receive US government benefits? It's just another arbitrary way, discrimination by location, the racist patriarchy oppresses POC.
Medicare For All? What about people in Guatemala or Honduras or Liberia? Do we think that just because they are brown-skinned we can ignore them? More racism and oppression.
Oppose Trumps wall all you want, but unless you are willing to open up every Federal program to everyone in the world, you're just another cog in the racist, patriarchal machine.
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Post by majorminor on Jan 10, 2019 9:45:45 GMT -5
Exactly. The thing those f*****s should be most afraid of is if they shut the government down and no one besides MSNBC notices.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2019 9:46:11 GMT -5
Peter, your myopia concerning the shutdown is astounding. Concerning the adept of AG and the CDC. A excerpt from a statistical page from the CDC on food born illness, hospitalization S, and deaths. "Food-Related Illness and Death Thumbnail of Estimated frequency of foodborne illness in the United States. Figure. Estimated frequency of foodborne illness in the United States. We summed illness attributable to foodborne gastroenteritis caused by known and unknown pathogens, yielding an estimate of 76 million illnesses, 318,574 hospitalizations, and 4,316 deaths. Adding to these figures the nongastrointestinal illness caused by Listeria, Toxoplasma, and hepatitis A virus, we arrived at a final national estimate of 76 million illnesses, 323,914 hospitalizations, and 5,194 deaths each year (Figure)." And that's with the CDC running, correct? And that's somehow supposed to prove what? That's what this whole thing is about, isn't it? So give Trump his wall. Duh. Yeah, that's where I've worked most of my life. I know all about it. Just like your CDC reference, this one's practically pointless. So, let me know when you find some relevant facts.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Jan 10, 2019 9:58:12 GMT -5
Peter, since you don't seem to have any ability to connect the dots, let me spell it out for you. The above is the level of carnage with everything in the Gov in place and working. Without those Fed agencies, as imperfect as they may be, over time, the carnage will increase.
Mike
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2019 10:06:21 GMT -5
Peter, since you don't seem to have any ability to connect the dots, let me spell it out for you. The above is the level of carnage with everything in the Gov in place and working. Without those Fed agencies, as imperfect as they may be, over time, the carnage will increase. Mike You're sure about this, right? Somehow the entirety of the American populace and it's activities are beholden to a bunch of regulatory agencies? Americans are so incompetent at existing together that they have to consult the government before deciding what to eat for breakfast. What the hell did we do before the 60's when most of them came into existence? Just get up in the morning and lay down and die because it's so miserable and bleak? Maybe, just maybe the practical contributions of these agencies are at best marginal. That would be a bitch to find out. But here we go, anyways. Place your bets. I personally ain't skeered.
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Post by millring on Jan 10, 2019 10:14:00 GMT -5
If I made my living saving people from risks, you can bet I would be finding lots of risks to save them from. In fact, I'd probably hire help to save folks from the risks while I found new ones. In fact, I'd probably hire people to find new risks and save folks from them. It all pays better than the average American income and by doing all that hiring, I'm "administration" and that pays even better.
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Post by millring on Jan 10, 2019 10:15:18 GMT -5
...it also has the added job security that comes with an entire population convinced that they no longer have to watch out for their own risks with me on the job.
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Post by fauxmaha on Jan 10, 2019 10:16:51 GMT -5
Here's a useful heuristic. Never build a federal government that you don't want Donald Trump eventually running.
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Post by patrick on Jan 10, 2019 11:43:09 GMT -5
Spoken like a true born and bred bureaucrat. Spoken like someone who doesn't understand what the government does. Which is like pretty much most of the US population. Right now the country is running on the savings and credit lines of government workers who are still on the job. It gets covered up because politicians try to mitigate the effect on the population, which is why the population doesn't know what the government does. What would a REAL shutdown look like? I mean, no "essential/non-essential" crap, everyone is off the job. You would shut down air transportation in the country, because there would be no air traffic control. You would shut the borders, stopping all imports and exports, quickly shutting down any number of businesses in the US that rely on those. See how this goes?
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Post by patrick on Jan 10, 2019 11:53:21 GMT -5
Building the wall is immoral. But really, let's quit pretending: The concept of citizenship itself is immoral. It is nothing but a vestige of the white, European, patriarchal system used historically to oppress POC. No it isn't. This is complete nonsense. Citizenship arose under the ancient Greeks and signified who was a member of the polis, and who therefore had obligations to the city, especially to fight for its defense, and who could therefore expect certain protections and rights from the city. The Romans commonly extended citizenship to people in territories they conquered. The entire notion of race as we know it didn't arise until centuries later.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2019 11:55:34 GMT -5
Spoken like a true born and bred bureaucrat. Spoken like someone who doesn't understand what the government does. Which is like pretty much most of the US population. Right now the country is running on the savings and credit lines of government workers who are still on the job. It gets covered up because politicians try to mitigate the effect on the population, which is why the population doesn't know what the government does. What would a REAL shutdown look like? I mean, no "essential/non-essential" crap, everyone is off the job. You would shut down air transportation in the country, because there would be no air traffic control. You would shut the borders, stopping all imports and exports, quickly shutting down any number of businesses in the US that rely on those. See how this goes? Yep. This one's the real deal, not the usual political show. We'll finally see if you and yours can prove any of that.
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Post by fauxmaha on Jan 10, 2019 12:06:19 GMT -5
Building the wall is immoral. But really, let's quit pretending: The concept of citizenship itself is immoral. It is nothing but a vestige of the white, European, patriarchal system used historically to oppress POC. No it isn't. This is complete nonsense. Citizenship arose under the ancient Greeks and signified who was a member of the polis, and who therefore had obligations to the city, especially to fight for its defense, and who could therefore expect certain protections and rights from the city. The Romans commonly extended citizenship to people in territories they conquered. The entire notion of race as we know it didn't arise until centuries later. I see how you take recourse in the proto-patriarchial Greek and Roman cultures. Typical racist mansplaining.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 10, 2019 12:11:08 GMT -5
Patrick--remember what you don't feed. Aside from the squirrels, that is.
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Post by fauxmaha on Jan 10, 2019 12:14:07 GMT -5
Patrick--remember what you don't feed. Aside from the squirrels, that is. Non-personing is the standard patriarchial response.
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