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Post by aquaduct on Jan 8, 2019 19:44:12 GMT -5
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Post by brucemacneill on Jan 8, 2019 19:51:21 GMT -5
I noticed the first thing they put back in business was the IRS.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 8, 2019 19:58:48 GMT -5
I noticed the first thing they put back in business was the IRS. Whew! So people don't have to steal from themselves anymore. Bonus!
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Post by John B on Jan 8, 2019 21:07:12 GMT -5
I have several client issues that have been on hold since the shutdown. I'd LOVE to be able to talk to someone at the IRS.
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Post by Cornflake on Jan 8, 2019 21:26:37 GMT -5
It's a sad episode for our country.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 8, 2019 21:40:26 GMT -5
I live just over the mountain from DC and if I don't turn on the TV (and I don't have TV), I'd never know the government was shutdown.
Like Jeff always says, it's surprising how much government you can live without.
I've got a sense this could be bad for the Beltway mythology.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jan 8, 2019 22:38:49 GMT -5
It's a sad episode for our country. Indeed.
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Post by millring on Jan 9, 2019 7:44:59 GMT -5
There have been a few gambits that have worked really well for the Democrats over the years. The idea that reasonable Republicans will always come around to the Democrat's position (in the press and Washington it's called "compromise", though it is nothing of the sort) has been one of the most successful of those gambits as played by the Democrat's partnership with the national press. Other gambits include begging every question as the Democrats and the press declare national emergencies that only the government can solve. Another is controlling the language of the debate so that being anti-abortion is "misogyny", wishing to curtail illegal immigration is "racism", questioning any aspect of the way the Democrats and the press characterize climate change is "anti-science", questioning the direction or value of aspects of academia is "anti-intellectual"....the Democrats and the press control all the language by which issues are debated and thereby win every debate (at least to their satisfaction. Obviously, this is where the biggest change has happened in society -- the opposition to the press/Democrat juggernaut has finally stopped debating because it finally understands that it cannot have a meaningful discussion with someone who controls the language of the debate and begs every question, so they've simply started to vote and not discuss.) Toward that end, it might be interesting to see where this shutdown leads. Will it be an overstep by the Democrats for the first time, or will it work like it always has as a cynical way of bashing Republicans? We'll see.
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Post by fauxmaha on Jan 9, 2019 8:11:05 GMT -5
Like Jeff always says, it's surprising how much government you can live without. The original was from former Indiana governor Mitch Daniels: "You’d be amazed how much government you’ll never miss". We have a couple of small orders from federal agencies that are on hold right now. No biggie. It will all get worked out.
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Post by theevan on Jan 9, 2019 9:38:20 GMT -5
It is a sad episode.
As much as I dislike the I.M. (Infantile Mouth), he is right on this one. Both sides are playing politics. There should never have even been a debate about border security.
Secure it.
Remove the monkey wrenches from the immigration system. (That's the harder of the two, I think. Too many entrenched positions on too many sides.)
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Post by lar on Jan 9, 2019 11:22:04 GMT -5
While I appreciate that there are strongly held views on both sides of the border wall issue I'm still having a difficult time getting my arms around why it was necessary to shut down a part of the federal government. The fact of the matter is that people are not being paid for the work they do and others have no work and no income because of an issue that doesn't involve them at all. They are pawns in a larger game. In my view one of the signs that a government has lost it's way is when governance is abandoned in favor of accumulation of personal power and influence. I think we've arrived at that point.
I strongly believe that when a job is created, regardless of whether it's by a private enterprise or by the government, it's the employer's responsibility to maintain that job. There may be effective arguments to be made that there are too many government jobs. That's another argument for another day. My point is that the government has an obligation to it's employees. Petty political crap shouldn't get in the way of that. And as usual "we the people" stand by powerless while the people we elected refuse to do their jobs. What the hell is wrong with us?
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Post by lar on Jan 9, 2019 12:17:11 GMT -5
I just read an article about how concerned Republicans in Congress are about the shutdown. And of course the Democrats have been wringing their hands about it since day one.
Here's a thought and it would be a real test of whether our politicians are willing to walk their talk. Congress has the ability to create veto proof legislation. All they have to do is join together, across party lines, and pass a bill that has sufficient support to overcome a presidential veto. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Good grief, is it any wonder that my cynicism has reached epic proportions?
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 9, 2019 12:45:03 GMT -5
Being a veteran of government shutdowns and actual firings, I think finally Democrats have overplayed their hands.
The standard script for a shutdown is to send a bunch of people home for a couple weeks where they will work on the house or the car or just sleep in (can't take vacation because if they vote to re-open, you need to be at work the next am). Everybody gets all overwrought. And then they end the shutdown and vote to give all the employees the back pay they missed. In the end, no harm, no foul (of course nothing gets done either but that tends to be normal for bureaucracy).
I think more than a few of the protected government classes may finally get a taste of what private sector folks inherently know. Losing work sucks and there ain't much you can do about it other than soldier on.
I think this may mark a huge strategic mistake for Democrats. Welcome to the real world where generally nobody owes you anything or gives a shit.
And this time, it's probably the most opportune time for a shutdown. The only people furloughed are the most bureaucratic of the bureaucrats. EPA and other alphabet soup agencies that people only vaguely understand. No military, nothing visible. Could be a looonnnnggg shutdown.
Having lost jobs, including a government job (which nobody in the government could understand at the time, they all thought I was some kind of defective retard to be patronized) I feel for everyone who gets caught up in that. But maybe, just maybe government workers won't be so cavalier about what it means next time and this whole thing won't be such an easy threat to make.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jan 9, 2019 13:14:07 GMT -5
The SEIU has the power to stop the shutdown. All they'd have to do is threaten to cut off funding for the DNC. The Democrats have voted for the wall several times for a lot more money. They just won't this time because of TDS.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 9, 2019 13:49:43 GMT -5
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Post by Marshall on Jan 9, 2019 14:59:12 GMT -5
I just read an article about how concerned Republicans in Congress are about the shutdown. And of course the Democrats have been wringing their hands about it since day one. Here's a thought and it would be a real test of whether our politicians are willing to walk their talk. Congress has the ability to create veto proof legislation. All they have to do is join together, across party lines, and pass a bill that has sufficient support to overcome a presidential veto. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Good grief, is it any wonder that my cynicism has reached epic proportions? Ha, ha, ha. Nice thought. But Mitch McConaughey ( ) won't bring up a bill in the Senate that Trump won't support. Doesn't matter who wants to vote for what. So until Trump decides he came claim a victory, it won't happen. And Trump doesn't care about who suffers. He said the other night that furloughed people support him. "Stick to your guns," they say. (oops. I said guns) He's delusional enough to believe he's always right. And he'll do whatever he thinks is necessary to claim victory. Yes Ds have voted for wall funding in the past. And there's plenty of wall there already and maintaining or enhancing it is a reasonable idea. But reason has nothing to do with any of this. Ds feel they finally have an upper hand on Trump. And he feels his tactic to starve the dealer will bluff the opposition into folding so he doesn't have to play his cards.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 9, 2019 15:12:55 GMT -5
McConnell's game is two-sided, and one side is keeping the Senate in line while he continues his program (begun in the Obama administration) of filling the federal bench with certified conservatives and (currently) confirming every crony and former lobbyist the White House chooses to run agencies. (As distinct from refusing to confirm anybody the White House nominates, which was the Obama-era protocol.)
As long as Trump's demands, reversals, redefinitions, and general wackiness don't push some significant portion of the Senate away from the party line, he can maintain his grip on legislation. I can't imagine that a politician as canny as McConnell doesn't see Trump's wackiness for what it is (not genius but half-assed improvisation papered over with endless redefinitions of terms, I-never-said-thats, and flat-out lies), but as long as he can keep delivering on the real GOP agenda, he's going to pretend that the Senate isn't half of a co-equal branch of government but an enabling service for He Who Must Be Obeyed.
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Post by lar on Jan 9, 2019 15:15:26 GMT -5
Marshall, I agree with you about Mitch. I'm not sure what he thinks his mission is but "the will of the people" doesn't seem to be on his agenda. Time to move on. I wonder if the Republicans could replace him if they got sick enough of his crap.
You're right that Trump said that the furloughed workers support him. He has also said that they are all Democrats. Huh?
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Post by Marshall on Jan 9, 2019 15:27:28 GMT -5
Marshall, I agree with you about Mitch. I'm not sure what he thinks his mission is but "the will of the people" doesn't seem to be on his agenda. Time to move on. I wonder if the Republicans could replace him if they got sick enough of his crap. You're right that Trump said that the furloughed workers support him. He has also said that they are all Democrats. Huh? See Russel's post above
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 9, 2019 15:39:56 GMT -5
Marshall, I agree with you about Mitch. I'm not sure what he thinks his mission is but "the will of the people" doesn't seem to be on his agenda. Time to move on. I wonder if the Republicans could replace him if they got sick enough of his crap. You're right that Trump said that the furloughed workers support him. He has also said that they are all Democrats. Huh? Since when has "the will of the people" meant exclusively you and everybody who agrees with you?
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