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Post by james on Nov 10, 2020 11:52:32 GMT -5
Some people may take longer than others to acknowledge reality.
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Post by majorminor on Nov 10, 2020 12:10:57 GMT -5
But because there are so many questions surrounding the vote, What are these "so many questions". Seriously. I mean, I'm OK with being thorough etc. but I'm trying to get an early read and an organized list on what the actual proof available is and what the specific claims are? Going by memory here: 1) a small rural county in Wisconsin came in heavy Biden when it shouldn't have. Election officials caught it and self audited and determined a clerk hadn't uploaded an update to the collating software. The reporting says this was caught internally and would be in other counties states using that same software etc. 2) we all went to bed Thursday night to awaken to a big dump of Biden votes in Georgia and Pennsylvania which have been explained as being due to the heavily skewed Biden mail in votes being counted last. 3) Trump says in Pennsylvania observers weren't allowed close enough to the vote counters to actually verify if they were being honest when tabulating. 4) scattered reports of minor occurrence of dead people voting etc. 5) I guess a general protest about having mail in voting on a national level and if so when the legal cut off should have been. Have I missed any?
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Post by epaul on Nov 10, 2020 12:21:21 GMT -5
From where I sit, it seems the "no discernable path" to victory for Trump is true. But because there are so many questions surrounding the vote, a full vetting is not only in order, but can only benefit faith in the vote now and in the future. It will allay distrust and hopefully calm nerves. Chill and let it play out. I (of course) blame Trump and his [insert every negative trait of his I have heard, read, and deduced]... but at this point, and with the disturbing and discombobulating confusion that is social media, I agree. It is best to put the charges and rumors to the test. If Team Trump's lawyers believe they have charges that have court-merit and are supported by court-worthy evidence, then bring them to court. If a judge agrees the Trump evidence is court-worthy and not spurious, then adjudicate it. Put the charges and those making them to the test in a courtroom, not on Facebook.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 10, 2020 12:27:32 GMT -5
But because there are so many questions surrounding the vote, What are these "so many questions". Seriously. I mean, I'm OK with being thorough etc. but I'm trying to get an early read and an organized list on what the actual proof available is and what the specific claims are? Going by memory here: 1) a small rural county in Wisconsin came in heavy Biden when it shouldn't have. Election officials caught it and self audited and determined a clerk hadn't uploaded an update to the collating software. The reporting says this was caught internally and would be in other counties states using that same software etc. 2) we all went to bed Thursday night to awaken to a big dump of Biden votes in Georgia and Pennsylvania which have been explained as being due to the heavily skewed Biden mail in votes being counted last. 3) Trump says in Pennsylvania observers weren't allowed close enough to the vote counters to actually verify if they were being honest when tabulating. 4) scattered reports of minor occurrence of dead people voting etc. 5) I guess a general protest about having mail in voting on a national level and if so when the legal cut off should have been. Have I missed any? Haven't really been following the details, but what I have to wonder is why the hell are anti-Trumpers absolutely f'ing insane in presumptively attacking any micron of what their idiots claim is a lack of evidence? Seriously. Just cool your jets. Worst case, we can all be assured that the system in all this year's novelty works. Best case is corruption is documented, corrected, and honored. What have you got to lose? The countries already hopelessly divided and there ain't any way that half the country's going to back Biden and cooperate going forward. Too late for that.
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Post by epaul on Nov 10, 2020 12:27:44 GMT -5
And advice to Team Trump's lawyers, don't accept any more I.O.U.s.
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Post by Marshall on Nov 10, 2020 13:12:13 GMT -5
But because there are so many questions surrounding the vote, What are these "so many questions". Seriously. I mean, I'm OK with being thorough etc. but I'm trying to get an early read and an organized list on what the actual proof available is and what the specific claims are? Going by memory here: 1) a small rural county in Wisconsin came in heavy Biden when it shouldn't have. Election officials caught it and self audited and determined a clerk hadn't uploaded an update to the collating software. The reporting says this was caught internally and would be in other counties states using that same software etc. 2) we all went to bed Thursday night to awaken to a big dump of Biden votes in Georgia and Pennsylvania which have been explained as being due to the heavily skewed Biden mail in votes being counted last. 3) Trump says in Pennsylvania observers weren't allowed close enough to the vote counters to actually verify if they were being honest when tabulating. 4) scattered reports of minor occurrence of dead people voting etc. 5) I guess a general protest about having mail in voting on a national level and if so when the legal cut off should have been. Have I missed any? There's the Supreme Court case in PA about counting votes received after 8:00pm on Tuesday. The case has some merit based on the Constitution giving the State Legislatures the right to set regulations on voting. Morally it seems bad. But legally it has merit. - Though, from what I have read, the Counties in the state segregated those ballots already. And it represents a few hundred votes only. And the margin for Biden is much more than the total number of ballots in question, so I'd bet the Supremes decide not to take up the case. It's already been before them twice without acceptance of the complaint. Yes it's a different court now, but with the likelihood that it could not affect the state vote, the Supremes are likely to take a nap on it. Oh, and there was a complaint about 3,000 votes in AZ (or Nevada?) by people not living in the state. Turns out the vast majority are explained by military and college students who are allowed to vote in their home state when away on duty or in school.
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Post by epaul on Nov 10, 2020 13:22:37 GMT -5
I have heard complaints about a voter in Illinois. Something about defacing guitars and neighborhood disturbances. Guy sounds like a menace, but I don't see it changing the vote in IL.
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Post by gbacklin on Nov 10, 2020 13:32:51 GMT -5
I have heard complaints about a voter in Illinois. Something about defacing guitars and neighborhood disturbances. It wasn’t me. I was grocery shopping at the time of the incident !!! We are a nation that has one of the most important right to its people. Due process. Let the process run it’s course. Gore let his run 37 days. We are currently in day 7. Let’s say that there are a number of illegal events uncovered, whether it changes the outcome or not. Isn’t it a benefit to have these identified so they can be prevented in the future ? This only serves to strengthen our nation. There will be tension for a while after no matter which side wins. I’m hoping over time, we can all gather again at Idiot Jam and enjoy music and merrymaking.
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Post by epaul on Nov 10, 2020 13:47:42 GMT -5
Say! We've got two lawyers right here... and they are free. So, we can save ourselves all this typing and just adjudicate each and every case mentioned and not mentioned by letting our lawyers do all the work. Our lawyers will gather and investigate the charges and evidence, they will present their respective claims and argue their respective cases. All we have to do is sit back, relax and vote at the end as judge and jury.
We need one of our lawyers to represent Trump and the other to represent the various states that are being sued. To insure impartiality, I assigned the cases by flipping a coin.
David, you are representing Donald J. Trump against the states of Michigan, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Arizona (these are seven individual cases, not one lumped one, sorry).
Don, you are representing the states of Michigan, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Arizona against Donald J. Trump. (these are seven individual cases, not one lumped one, sorry)
The Court session will open Friday. Be prepared. Be thorough. Gentlemen, start your engines!
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 10, 2020 13:56:52 GMT -5
Say! We've got two lawyers right here... and they are free. So, we can save ourselves all this typing and just adjudicate each and every case mentioned and not mentioned by letting our lawyers do all the work. Our lawyers will gather and investigate the charges and evidence, they will present their respective claims and argue their respective cases. All we have to do is sit back, relax and vote at the end as judge and jury. We need one of our lawyers to represent Trump and the other to represent the various states that are being sued. To insure impartiality, I assigned the cases by flipping a coin. David, you are representing Donald J. Trump against the states of Michigan, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Arizona (these are seven individual cases, not one lumped one, sorry). Don, you are representing the states of Michigan, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Arizona against Donald J. Trump. (these are seven individual cases, not one lumped one, sorry) The Court session will open Friday. Be prepared. Be thorough. Gentlemen, start your engines! We're not buying them beer, are we? That could get expensive.
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Post by John B on Nov 10, 2020 13:59:01 GMT -5
I hasten to speak for our esteemed colleagues, but as you pointed out above, IOUs are not an acceptable form of payment. As long as you're footing the bill, and paying in advance....
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Post by theevan on Nov 10, 2020 14:04:48 GMT -5
I have heard complaints about a voter in Illinois. Something about defacing guitars and neighborhood disturbances. It wasn’t me. I was grocery shopping at the time of the incident !!! We are a nation that has one of the most important right to its people. Due process. Let the process run it’s course. Gore let his run 37 days. We are currently in day 7. Let’s say that there are a number of illegal events uncovered, whether it changes the outcome or not. Isn’t it a benefit to have these identified so they can be prevented in the future ? This only serves to strengthen our nation. There will be tension for a while after no matter which side wins. I’m hoping over time, we can all gather again at Idiot Jam and enjoy music and merrymaking. THIS!!
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Post by james on Nov 10, 2020 14:49:03 GMT -5
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Post by Cornflake on Nov 10, 2020 15:56:57 GMT -5
I'm not too worried about getting paid because I don't think I'll have to work that hard. I used to do election-challenge cases. If you bring one, you'd better come in with facts, not suspicions, or you'll get bounced. And these challenges will have to show that the irregularities affected the outcome of the election in the state in question. For the most part the margins weren't narrow enough for that to be likely. Maybe there's a solid claim out there. If so, I haven't seen it.
There are irregularities in every election. If anything, this election seems to have had fewer than I would expect to see.
The people who have alleged fraud without any evidence are way beyond the limits of acceptable partisanship, in my view.
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Post by fauxmaha on Nov 10, 2020 16:28:18 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 10, 2020 16:35:47 GMT -5
That's what I understand too. That's what motivated Justice Alito to get involved.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 10, 2020 16:59:45 GMT -5
Another thing that I'm picking up is that changes to voting law is controlled by legislatures, not executives. Mirroring the voluntary abdication of the responsibility of legislating that's gone on for the last 60 some odd years in the Federal government in favor of the expediency of Executive and Judiciary rulemaking, much of the arguments come down to how Executive and Judicial changes to mail in voting rules that have been going on all year in anticipation of this election. All based largely on "Covid bad" panic. It really doesn't seem to hinge much on proving folks came out and tried to cheat, it's that they were illegally allowed to cheat. Kind of a significant difference.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Nov 10, 2020 17:18:24 GMT -5
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
2016 was closer, and Hillary conceded the morning after election day.
That's all I have.
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Post by brucemacneill on Nov 10, 2020 17:33:11 GMT -5
After today's Senate hearing, Hillary should be in jail.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Nov 10, 2020 17:38:34 GMT -5
Any specific crime, or just still generally vibing on the whole 'lock her up' trip?
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