|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 4, 2023 9:52:37 GMT -5
Thanks Paul McGill for your spirited and thorough defense/analysis of the new pickup. It sure seems interesting. I understand touring Pros have a need for a bulletproof system that gives them the best most versatile sound. In most those cases they have a professional soundman at the controls who can work to tame the vagaries of most pickups out there. It's different for us weekend warrior guitar players, who have to deal with the issues mostly without much qualified assistance. In that regard your pickup system shows good promise, especially because it doesn't require permanent modification to the guitar. One question I have is; how do you/we deal with getting the right height for your saddle? Can it be sanded down? I'll certainly be interested in hearing more information and recordings about this pickup. But there are many options out there including Impulse Response pedals and such that are all clamoring for attention and market share. It's a brave new world of amplification. Hi Marshall The Pickup has margins to adjust for string height. Yes, we do more to provide a sound that is well engineered before it leaves the guitar. But even in touring mixes there are advantages. The system was EQ'd with the assistance of Peter White who has toured for 5 years with Goaa. Peter beta tested on stage and we modified the EQ until it was tonally optimal at loud stages vol. His engineers have gone out of their way to tell me how much better the sound is, they do not have to do much at sound check. Peter loves the richer tone and the dynamics allows him to leave his booster pedal it home. youtu.be/1uELL3NlLBo?si=CCZirH2zLq1Fdo0oThis is a shed venue NW of Atlanta. There were sub woofers you can not hear. The drummer is Eric Valentine, he is Lukather's drummer. Eric is not a quiet player. Then the sax has to be competed with, Richard Elliot. At 55 seconds you can see just how feedback resistant Goaa is. Peter could not tour the way he performs with all the single output pickups commonly installed. It would be a very difficult thing to control in his environment. His guitars are fully acoustic to provide the best live sound.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 4, 2023 10:03:46 GMT -5
Paul McGill is an interesting fellow. Visited him with J (Giacomo Fiore) back in the day when Paul was building J a classical. His place was a terrible mess. But his guitars are emphatically not. Unbelievable craftsmanship. Hi Evan, You must have lived in Nashville. I wish I could remember every visitor. Ha, my shop. Yes, it can become over whelmed, that is because it is in heavy use. I have to reorganize regularly. I am a one man show. Sorry you caught my environment when things were on overdrive and no it is not any reflection on the quality of what gets done, now there are guitars coming in here for installations and that is adding a lot of environmental stress. In my environment I function without causing damage to guitars, given the damage that happens on stages I wish I could convey that awareness to stage acts and crews.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 4, 2023 10:18:42 GMT -5
I’m considering using an electric guitar, plug it in and pretend it’s acoustic. At least you’ll be heard. Every time I saw Thom Bresh he was using one of these. reverb.com/item/64553316-aphex-acoustic-xciter-2000s-greenIn workshops, he would always recommend them. My (née Marshall’s) ToneDexter is perfect for what you want. It sounds exactly like my guitar would through a mic and has a boost pedal for playing leads louder than backup. I use it everywhere there’s a sound system. My D-28 has a K&K Pure Western Mini. The ToneDexter requires external 9V power. The Aphex Acoustic Exciter can use an internal 9V battery or 48V phantom power from a mixer. On edit: Bresh also had the original Go Acoustic Audio pickup system in his Leach dreadnought with the Bigsby neck. I don’t remember seeing him use that guitar on stage. I agree. The Aphex exciter is a great enhancer of acoustic sound and has been a go-to studio vocal enhancer for years. I am not as taken with the digital converters because they do not manage interaction with the touch of the player, improve feedback suppression, and have an 8 millisecond delay. We exploit a zero-sum pickup signal into our preamp. Yes, Bresh had our later preamp with sound hole controls in his Leach. It had the mike included, the Duelette had no mike. Here is Bill Piburn playing his guitar for the first time. photos.app.goo.gl/gDubGsuLwTyoxxwN9
|
|
|
Post by drlj on Dec 4, 2023 10:26:19 GMT -5
Thom found that after years of pushing low strings with a thumb pick he could forget about how much he could move the room through the Go Acoustic sound system I installed systems for him in 2 guitars. His leach Spirit and his Langeans duelette. Langejans. Del Langejans of Holland, MI made the Duelette guitars that Bresh played.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 4, 2023 11:00:56 GMT -5
My opinion is that no piezo transducer can give you the “real” acoustic sound of any guitar. The technology just isn’t there. The only thing anyone found that can is a microphone with all its issues. This system is WAY too complicated and it offers no acoustic improvement over basic piezo sound. I still think the soundhole mag pickup with a vibration sensor is as good as we have today. I just want for others to understand that our saddle pickup technology is not what you have heard before. It does not react to you as a player as you are accustomed. Here is a fine player and Winfield champion experiencing Goaa fo the first time. youtu.be/II9SNQ0bu7UIt was 8 am on a Sunday morning in feb 18. I had installed Goaa in a guitar for Marc Antoine a few weeks earlier and asked him to use it plugged in before he went on tour. Of course he did not. I looked at my phone and thought, 8am on Sunday morning. It was Marc. My first thought was, Oh No, what has gone wrong. So, with trepidation, I answered and said his name. He replied. "Paul, do you want the god honest truth?" Now I was really feeling anxious and he knew it. I said I had to hear the truth. He then said in a very dramatic way, "THIS F-ING THING, is killer!! I was blank for a few seconds and he laughed his ass off. He then went on a 15 minute expanse on every nuance. He said he was never able to drone bass strings while single lining, the touch sensitivity, etc. People want to sound like their guitars. But there is a interaction that goes beyond what people refer to as natural sound. Its the experience of expression. How you manipulate the strings and exploit dynamics. These are issues I never hear discussed concerning pickup amplification But I disagree that the tone of an instrument can not be captured. I see how our system changes in different guitars. We do not have to make systems for specific applications.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 5, 2023 20:40:46 GMT -5
My opinion is that no piezo transducer can give you the “real” acoustic sound of any guitar. The technology just isn’t there. The only thing anyone found that can is a microphone with all its issues. This system is WAY too complicated and it offers no acoustic improvement over basic piezo sound. I still think the soundhole mag pickup with a vibration sensor is as good as we have today. This video arrived today from Bolivia. Its an excerpt from a major music event that lasted something like 5 hours. Have you ever heard a more naturally acoustic sound, on a large stage. drive.google.com/file/d/16Zh_ZvvzEigttiAWa5JiN0eYbuS3AQe4/view?usp=drivesdkI am very pleased with the sound off this video.
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Dec 5, 2023 22:24:15 GMT -5
That’s very impressive !
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,852
Member is Online
|
Post by Dub on Dec 6, 2023 0:52:24 GMT -5
Have you ever heard a more naturally acoustic sound, on a large stage. No, not ever. Wonderful tone and response.
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,852
Member is Online
|
Post by Dub on Dec 6, 2023 0:57:58 GMT -5
Here is a fine player and Winfield champion experiencing Goaa fo the first time. youtu.be/II9SNQ0bu7U I’ve been in a workshop with Shane Adkins. Great player. He’s also an aerospace engineer and can’t be bought. If he likes it, it’s definitely good. Thank you, Paul for sharing all this with us.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 6, 2023 19:35:14 GMT -5
Here is a fine player and Winfield champion experiencing Goaa fo the first time. youtu.be/II9SNQ0bu7U I’ve been in a workshop with Shane Adkins. Great player. He’s also an aerospace engineer and can’t be bought. If he likes it, it’s definitely good. Thank you, Paul for sharing all this with us. I've only talked with him when I asked permission to use the video of him. He works at redstone were they tested rockets for the space race. He works on the project to remove the rocket fuels that are in the ground effecting water tables. It is a privilege to have this support
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Dec 7, 2023 9:19:49 GMT -5
Wow. I just watched the installation directions. www.goacousticaudio.com/shs_install_animatedThat is the most thorough set of instructions I've ever seen. You even include a a tool to keep the endpin from rotating when tightening the washer and nut. I've been using a #4 or #6 nail for years on pickup installs. Even the discussion out leaving 0.1" short on the large diameter of the endpin jack. That's a circumstance I found out myself the hard way several years ago. I've never seen it described so well before. The rest of it looks thorough and easy to follow. The graphics are terrific. Amazingly well done. Good work.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 7, 2023 9:36:19 GMT -5
One question I have is; how do you/we deal with getting the right height for your saddle? Can it be sanded down? I thought I would show you how a GoAA pickup is made so you can see how it is adjusted for action height. photos.app.goo.gl/UTCAWFpQiH7An6K97There are 2 notches below the windows that reflect the height that can be lowered. There is 80 thousands or 2 mm of material that can be removed to lower the pickup height. Inside the windows are toggles that flip down to lock the micro ribbon cable in place. There is a poke hole on the opposite side of the pickups to release the toggle. To lower the action you only needed to lift the pickup from the bridge, release the toggles, and remove the cables. Then the bottom of the pickup can be ground down for adjustment. Reinsert the cables. Lock them in place and re insert the pick up in the slot. The pickup for steel strings is made with a 16 inch radius. It can be shaped from there to match other radiuses. Because we have vol control for each string the shaping will not cause string balancing issues after adjustment. There is no soldering involved. The system is drop in, in most cases. If a client sends the original saddle I will shape it for them. The lowest the steel string pickup can be made is around.200, or 5 mm.
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Dec 7, 2023 10:15:35 GMT -5
Well thought out. Impressive.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 11, 2023 11:31:10 GMT -5
In Aaron Short's review video above he shows that with heavy strumming the thing quacks out like a normal UST piezo. That would not work for me. youtu.be/IdGjcZWBhh4?si=JjJ-MyUrJpxaXDRrThis is Shane Hennessey This is aggressive playing with no effects The amp is a fender acoustic 100
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Dec 11, 2023 16:02:43 GMT -5
Cool. But how is it recorded? Is it a feed out from the amp? Or is it a microphone in the room? If it's a mic in the room, we're hearing the pickup-amp and the acoustic guitar. You want to be clear in the lead up to listening to the recording just what we're hearing.
Yes it sounds excellent.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 14, 2023 8:28:09 GMT -5
The pickup design reminds me of early Baggs saddle transducers, which had individual crystals molded into the saddle. I also see that they offer a MIDI add-on board. I wonder whether it's Roland-specific or can feed any MIDI processing system. Steve Cloutier built a MIDI guitar years ago with a hex pickup that he could use with all manner of gear. You can hear it on some of his YouTube videos. >> Midi requires individual signals for the best result. There are devices that separate individual signals but of course that will add tracking delay. So having all strings summed into one signal defeats the purpose of midi. We used Graphtech individual saddle pickups with our midi systems. Currently Walter Rodrigues is making a video production comparing our Midi system to RMC in 2 Godin Multiacs. When it is published I will post a link. Our single saddle pickup with 6 individual signals, does not separate strings well enough for Midi. We find most players relate to the quality of sound of the single saddle for non midi applications. Paul McGill Go Acoustic Audio mcgillguitars.com
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 15, 2023 7:06:42 GMT -5
Cool. But how is it recorded? Is it a feed out from the amp? Or is it a microphone in the room? If it's a mic in the room, we're hearing the pickup-amp and the acoustic guitar. You want to be clear in the lead up to listening to the recording just what we're hearing. Yes it sounds excellent. Hennessey was recorded with an Iphone. There is no video of it but Metheny uses one of the Baritone guitars we did for him with his heavy strumming pieces. After his first stage experience he wrote to say he did not realize how much he had been holding back. We replaced a Fishman which is probably no more than -50% total distortion. Go AA is more like -90%. The gain of the Fishman is probably at least 10DB, 1.5 times UST signal, Go AA is around unity with some margin for string balancing.
|
|
|
Post by goacoustic on Dec 24, 2023 13:38:28 GMT -5
Cool. But how is it recorded? Is it a feed out from the amp? Or is it a microphone in the room? If it's a mic in the room, we're hearing the pickup-amp and the acoustic guitar. You want to be clear in the lead up to listening to the recording just what we're hearing. Yes it sounds excellent. Marshall,
I went to Gruhn's and offered to put a system in a guitar for George. I came to Nashville in 85 to work in the Gruhn repair shop. George always hated pickups because they change the sound so much. Yes, I have been around that long and I was building guitars 9 years before that time. I was one of the restorationist there and did my fair share of restoring lots of vintage instruments including pre war Martins, D' Angelicos, Gibson harp guitars from the early 20th century, etc......
So George gave me a Martin Dreadnaught and I did an installation in it. I took it back and met with Rob the sales manager. We took the guitar into the Amp room where he plugged into a Fishman Loudbox and he set the vol. at what he anticipated the system would handle in that small room. He started playing and given my experience with our system I reached in and cranked the Vol. His eyes brows raised, it was probably 3 times louder than he had set the vol. There was no feedback and he could drive the sound with authority, he is a wonderful player.
This can not be demonstrated to you in the videos I present.
I think your impression is like what Rob anticipated. But the vol. is louder and your impression is you are hearing the Amp at a low enough level to also hear the acoustic sound. Its the same expectation Rob had that day when he set the vol. , it can only go so loud without feedback. BTW- George arrived and stood there listening until Rob suspended his playing. George asked if they had anything that sounds that good in the shop and the reply was, " not even close"
Now that we are scaling up on production I plan to revisit this with them. But I present this so you can better understand the perception, understandable, that I see you express. I do not think you are hearing the direct acoustic quality as you would expect in these videos.
To give you an example of the signal strength, on my Fender 100 if I set the vol. at about 3, A Baggs Anthem would be 9.
The Baggs has more gain than Goaa, the quality of signal is not what you expect as the vol. goes up, so it is understandable your impression would be reflective of what the normal pickup signal and related headroom would reflect. The Total distortion of the Goaa system is Pro Audio Quality. We have measured Baggs and Fishman stuff between -35 and-45%.
But to better reflect what kind of quality Goaa produces, how many times does a major artist go into the studio and record plugged in with no mike involved at all?
This is a Billboard, #1 charting recording, from 2019.
Steve Oliver is an incredible guitarist, producer, musician and artist. This guitar is a Cordoba Classical guitar, It has an earlier Go AA Polydrive system and is using Graphtech individual saddles.
The guitar was reported to be run direct into the board with Reverb added.
The contrast to piano offers a good acoustic contrast. The nuance of Steve's technique is audible.
So often this issue of Sound quality is based on if the amplified sound is transparently reflecting the instrument. That is critical of course. But, the value is also the expressiveness of the guitarist to inject their nuance and dynamics and have a full reflection of their performance.
When I encounter guitarist who object to our sound I think of the people who have validated our work. Because I had access to many notable players I wanted the feedback and input of people who had opinions I respected. Its a long list of people and growing.
I did not get into this to sell a brand. I got into this because my identity as a guitarmaker is my stage models and I saw a future where there was no system I could exploit going forward to provide the ultimate high vol. stage sound I am known for. I took RMC as far as I could and knew that the product would be off the market going forward which it now is. My motivation was different than Guitar makers who just use and offer the commonly known products. None of those systems, that often people praise, were capable of what my stage artists had grown to expect of me. Here is another example of a guitar recorded direct, unlike the first recording this guitar has our internal mike and our single saddle PU. It is run through an Apollo digital converter so it can be recorded to a hard drive. youtu.be/tAZA_P-etb0?si=Qp8DjZrulA3YLbCtIn this case you cannot say there is any ambient sound coming from the guitar acoustically. This is solely the Go AA system recorded direct.
Merry Christmas
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Dec 25, 2023 11:45:49 GMT -5
Merry Christmas to you. (After the holiday I’ll listen to your clips. )
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Dec 26, 2023 16:49:56 GMT -5
Here is another example of a guitar recorded direct, unlike the first recording this guitar has our internal mike and our single saddle PU. It is run through an Apollo digital converter so it can be recorded to a hard drive. youtu.be/tAZA_P-etb0?si=Qp8DjZrulA3YLbCtIn this case you cannot say there is any ambient sound coming from the guitar acoustically. This is solely the Go AA system recorded direct. Merry Christmas Quite lovely. I love seeing the tracks being recorded on the monitor behind him.
|
|